Active Users:638 Time:23/12/2024 06:05:52 AM
Oeh Bramhodoulos Send a noteboard - 07/08/2011 01:54:19 PM
Well, as you can see I'm trying to keep up with several people at the same time and hopefully I'm not confusing your arguments with them and thereby answering questions you didn't ask.

But your example of C. difficile is interesting, for I think it actually proves my point.
You claim that they have objectively "low biological fitness" because they have a very low poplulation, especially compared to other bacteria.

This does not actually have anything to do with the gene pool, unless you would say that all species of bacteria share the same gene pool (and besides, bacteria have a different type of gene pool anyway, since they don't sexually reproduce).
None the less, your clasification of "having low biological fitness" is principally based on their low frequency, not based upon their internal genetical code, or their strong phenotype in and of itself, but only on their frequency.

Next you say that when anti-biotics are applied they are the only ones (or one of the very few) who can survive and therefor increase their numbers.
And once antibiotics are stopped things go back to normal.
You conclude: "That is an example of natural selection. It does not necessarily select for any particular characteristic."

Great, but that's my point!
My problem is not with the notion that nature selects, or that the survivers contribute more to the gene pool or anything, but my question is that if NS does not select for "any particular characteristic", how can that knowledge help us understand NS?

Now you can come with a specific example where NS does select for trait X, but the problem is that NS as a whole cannot be "tested". It can be (and if you ask me: must be) assumed, but I can't think of a non-tautologous formulation of NS that is explanatory.
Reply to message
Natural selection - 06/08/2011 03:51:26 PM 992 Views
selection for suitability - 06/08/2011 04:18:51 PM 644 Views
Thanks for your responce - 06/08/2011 04:41:20 PM 762 Views
I can't speak for LadyLorraine and won't try, but here's how I see it: - 06/08/2011 06:49:49 PM 686 Views
Just a question - 06/08/2011 07:18:09 PM 690 Views
Yes it can - 06/08/2011 07:41:59 PM 572 Views
But how? - 06/08/2011 07:52:10 PM 758 Views
Okay, I think I see what you're saying - 08/08/2011 05:30:43 PM 580 Views
Close - 08/08/2011 05:41:46 PM 774 Views
Re: Just a question - 06/08/2011 07:49:21 PM 780 Views
I'm not sure I understand you - 06/08/2011 08:20:44 PM 669 Views
All tautologies are truisms, but not all truisms are tautologies. - 06/08/2011 09:38:12 PM 698 Views
Then it is still a tautology - 06/08/2011 09:45:33 PM 703 Views
You can know it's beneifical to a particular individual, but it's harder to say for populations. - 06/08/2011 10:18:16 PM 799 Views
Maybe... - 07/08/2011 01:55:54 PM 658 Views
As I understand it - 06/08/2011 06:04:44 PM 634 Views
Better... - 06/08/2011 06:36:38 PM 616 Views
Actually - 06/08/2011 10:13:51 PM 705 Views
Re: Actually - 06/08/2011 10:37:33 PM 848 Views
Re: Actually - 06/08/2011 11:38:52 PM 775 Views
Oeh - 07/08/2011 01:54:19 PM 624 Views
Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 06/08/2011 06:36:35 PM 704 Views
Re: Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 06/08/2011 07:08:25 PM 716 Views
Re: Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 07/08/2011 12:46:23 AM 706 Views
The complexity of the problem makes it all but impossible to falsify... - 06/08/2011 08:26:06 PM 736 Views
The questions go deeper - 06/08/2011 08:38:31 PM 737 Views
Re: The questions go deeper - 06/08/2011 09:10:32 PM 713 Views
I think I know why you don't understand my question. - 06/08/2011 09:38:41 PM 744 Views
TalkOrigins addresses this at length. - 06/08/2011 11:14:52 PM 794 Views
Not very much, but interesting none the less - 06/08/2011 11:38:36 PM 790 Views
Re: Natural selection - 07/08/2011 03:00:30 AM 714 Views
Thanks a lot - 07/08/2011 01:38:39 PM 858 Views
2 things - 07/08/2011 04:00:35 PM 633 Views
Re: 2 things - 07/08/2011 04:33:00 PM 843 Views
Re: 2 things - 07/08/2011 05:48:26 PM 656 Views
My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:00:28 PM 691 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:37:58 PM 626 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:47:26 PM 778 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 07:02:27 PM 626 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 09:09:57 PM 744 Views

Reply to Message