Active Users:1897 Time:22/01/2025 03:10:16 PM
Just a question Bramhodoulos Send a noteboard - 06/08/2011 07:18:09 PM
A benefit TO the environment seems like going too far, because that statement itself is an entry into the philosophical, but an increased survival rate is a metric for benefits IN the environment: The greater survival of organisms with a certain trait in a certain environment over that of organisms without it suggests a natural, mechanical and non-directed selection for such traits generally. Without guidance, traits that help an organism in a given environment come to predominate over those that either don't help or even harm organisms, because organisms with helpful traits live longer and breed more than others. The scientific test of the theory is whether we can observe the results it predicts over time: If we do, that's evidence the theory is valid; if not, that's counterevidence (bearing in mind, as always, that evidence does not necessarily reach the level of conclusive proof).

That's just one laymans limited understanding though, so take it for what it's worth; there's a reason I didn't leap up to give my opinion. ;)


I think I understood the TO/IN in the way you explain it and your explanation sort of agrees with what LadyLorriane tried to say.

The tautology problem does not go away with your way of explaining it though, since you don't tell us how we "know" what individuals will be selected, before they are selected. Yes, taking in mind that we are dealing with probability, rather than with absolute numbers.
If a new individual is born, even when given all the possible information about it's DNA and it's environment, (and given that this individual does not have an obvious and gigantic disability), how would you determine it's "benefit in the environment" or it's "chances to procreate" before it actually happens? My point is that you can only measure that afterwards and if it can only be measured afterwards, it cannot be predicted or tested.
Reply to message
Natural selection - 06/08/2011 03:51:26 PM 1020 Views
selection for suitability - 06/08/2011 04:18:51 PM 668 Views
Thanks for your responce - 06/08/2011 04:41:20 PM 784 Views
I can't speak for LadyLorraine and won't try, but here's how I see it: - 06/08/2011 06:49:49 PM 715 Views
Just a question - 06/08/2011 07:18:09 PM 711 Views
Yes it can - 06/08/2011 07:41:59 PM 590 Views
But how? - 06/08/2011 07:52:10 PM 783 Views
Okay, I think I see what you're saying - 08/08/2011 05:30:43 PM 601 Views
Close - 08/08/2011 05:41:46 PM 799 Views
Re: Just a question - 06/08/2011 07:49:21 PM 804 Views
I'm not sure I understand you - 06/08/2011 08:20:44 PM 694 Views
All tautologies are truisms, but not all truisms are tautologies. - 06/08/2011 09:38:12 PM 713 Views
Then it is still a tautology - 06/08/2011 09:45:33 PM 730 Views
You can know it's beneifical to a particular individual, but it's harder to say for populations. - 06/08/2011 10:18:16 PM 825 Views
Maybe... - 07/08/2011 01:55:54 PM 682 Views
As I understand it - 06/08/2011 06:04:44 PM 657 Views
Better... - 06/08/2011 06:36:38 PM 643 Views
Actually - 06/08/2011 10:13:51 PM 727 Views
Re: Actually - 06/08/2011 10:37:33 PM 870 Views
Re: Actually - 06/08/2011 11:38:52 PM 799 Views
Oeh - 07/08/2011 01:54:19 PM 646 Views
Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 06/08/2011 06:36:35 PM 729 Views
Re: Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 06/08/2011 07:08:25 PM 738 Views
Re: Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 07/08/2011 12:46:23 AM 728 Views
The complexity of the problem makes it all but impossible to falsify... - 06/08/2011 08:26:06 PM 757 Views
The questions go deeper - 06/08/2011 08:38:31 PM 761 Views
Re: The questions go deeper - 06/08/2011 09:10:32 PM 739 Views
I think I know why you don't understand my question. - 06/08/2011 09:38:41 PM 768 Views
TalkOrigins addresses this at length. - 06/08/2011 11:14:52 PM 816 Views
Not very much, but interesting none the less - 06/08/2011 11:38:36 PM 816 Views
Re: Natural selection - 07/08/2011 03:00:30 AM 743 Views
Thanks a lot - 07/08/2011 01:38:39 PM 882 Views
2 things - 07/08/2011 04:00:35 PM 650 Views
Re: 2 things - 07/08/2011 04:33:00 PM 864 Views
Re: 2 things - 07/08/2011 05:48:26 PM 677 Views
My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:00:28 PM 712 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:37:58 PM 650 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:47:26 PM 807 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 07:02:27 PM 653 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 09:09:57 PM 767 Views

Reply to Message