Active Users:736 Time:03/04/2025 11:11:03 AM
Thanks for your responce Bramhodoulos Send a noteboard - 06/08/2011 04:41:20 PM
Natural Selection is the pressure put on a specie in an environment to survive. Animals with traits that are beneficial to the environment

Here I have to break in and ask: how does one know that a specific trait is beneficial to the environment?

can live longer and potentially contribute more to the gene pool. Animals with detrimental traits will live shorter lives and potentially contribute less to the gene pool.

This part seems to be oke

With these two influences, a specie's gene pool will, over time, be more beneficial to survival in that specific environment. It may not be enough to cause a deviation from specie (after all, look at the range of phenotype among humans), but it will be enough to increase the survival rate for that population.

Nothing intrinsically "wrong" with this part, but it is interesting none the less, since if you ask me, this part of your definition goes beond wat NS is, strictly speaking, and goes on to discuss the result.
There is however something else going on here, first you speak of "beneficial to the environment" (and I asked what that is), and here you say that the result is that it is beneficial to survival and even an increased survival rate for a population.

Now you make it a bit more complicated by importing the notion of a gene pool (a concept I think I understand), but something would be wrong here, if the book I'm reading is to be believed.

For you go from "beneficial to the enivronment" to "living longer/reproducing more often/contributing to the gene pool" (doesn't really matter how you label the 2nd step), to "increased survival rate".

Now first I asked you to define what you meant by "beneficial to the environment". Do you have a definition or perhaps an example?
Now, again: how would you know it is beneficial?
By the result, right? That is: if it helps to "increase the survival rate".
But if "increase of the survival rate" is the way to determine whether something is "beneficial to the environment", then the two are equal. By definition.

Hence we have a tautology.
A tautology is true (by definition), but it is not scientific in the sense that it can be tested.

I would be interested in hearing what he discussed. I'm trying to think of how one would discuss Natural Selection "philosophically", unless one is talking about cultural selection and natural selection in a society. Even then. I think that's more of a "borrowing" of the term than a true application.


I hope my repetition/application of what I think is his argument made sense to you :)
Reply to message
Natural selection - 06/08/2011 03:51:26 PM 1073 Views
selection for suitability - 06/08/2011 04:18:51 PM 718 Views
Thanks for your responce - 06/08/2011 04:41:20 PM 836 Views
I can't speak for LadyLorraine and won't try, but here's how I see it: - 06/08/2011 06:49:49 PM 777 Views
Just a question - 06/08/2011 07:18:09 PM 764 Views
Yes it can - 06/08/2011 07:41:59 PM 637 Views
But how? - 06/08/2011 07:52:10 PM 835 Views
Okay, I think I see what you're saying - 08/08/2011 05:30:43 PM 651 Views
Close - 08/08/2011 05:41:46 PM 851 Views
Re: Just a question - 06/08/2011 07:49:21 PM 858 Views
I'm not sure I understand you - 06/08/2011 08:20:44 PM 760 Views
All tautologies are truisms, but not all truisms are tautologies. - 06/08/2011 09:38:12 PM 779 Views
Then it is still a tautology - 06/08/2011 09:45:33 PM 789 Views
You can know it's beneifical to a particular individual, but it's harder to say for populations. - 06/08/2011 10:18:16 PM 891 Views
Maybe... - 07/08/2011 01:55:54 PM 748 Views
As I understand it - 06/08/2011 06:04:44 PM 709 Views
Better... - 06/08/2011 06:36:38 PM 693 Views
Actually - 06/08/2011 10:13:51 PM 783 Views
Re: Actually - 06/08/2011 10:37:33 PM 922 Views
Re: Actually - 06/08/2011 11:38:52 PM 849 Views
Oeh - 07/08/2011 01:54:19 PM 700 Views
Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 06/08/2011 06:36:35 PM 795 Views
Re: Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 06/08/2011 07:08:25 PM 795 Views
Re: Hmmm... there's some truth to that - 07/08/2011 12:46:23 AM 789 Views
The complexity of the problem makes it all but impossible to falsify... - 06/08/2011 08:26:06 PM 813 Views
The questions go deeper - 06/08/2011 08:38:31 PM 810 Views
Re: The questions go deeper - 06/08/2011 09:10:32 PM 797 Views
I think I know why you don't understand my question. - 06/08/2011 09:38:41 PM 818 Views
TalkOrigins addresses this at length. - 06/08/2011 11:14:52 PM 873 Views
Not very much, but interesting none the less - 06/08/2011 11:38:36 PM 865 Views
Re: Natural selection - 07/08/2011 03:00:30 AM 793 Views
Thanks a lot - 07/08/2011 01:38:39 PM 938 Views
2 things - 07/08/2011 04:00:35 PM 698 Views
Re: 2 things - 07/08/2011 04:33:00 PM 918 Views
Re: 2 things - 07/08/2011 05:48:26 PM 730 Views
My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:00:28 PM 762 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:37:58 PM 704 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 06:47:26 PM 860 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 07:02:27 PM 707 Views
Re: My best guess - 07/08/2011 09:09:57 PM 816 Views

Reply to Message