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Re: I'm loving your latest typo. Joel Send a noteboard - 01/08/2011 05:01:19 AM
I'm not gonna criticize you on form because that's just sophistry in which I don't engage, but it does seem like a Freudian slip. ;)

no it looks like I hit the space bar a second to early and spell checker doesn't check the subject. But hey it is all about perspective.

Like I said, it's not a reflection on your argument either way, I just found it ironic. ;) I do have to say though, I wish you'd type a little more slowly 'cos I frequently find myself having to decipher what you mean. I know you've got other stuff going on so I haven't mentioned it in a while, but there's got to be a happy medium between your volume of typos and the embarrassing amount of time I spend online.
Maybe we should ask John Boehner.... ;)

I did he and he said that the republicans in the house have managed to pass to bills that would save us from defaulting while the other side continues to posture and offer nothing.

Cute. Bottom line remains that the only to get his own bill through the House was to make it a copy of the Tea Partys; nice "alternative", Mr. Speaker.

Step back from the rhetoric. The Tea party doesn't like his bill. I know that doesn't make a great bumper sticker but reality is stubborn that way.

The Tea Party likes his bill fine now that it has the balanced budget amendment that makes it a copy of theirs; the Senate just didn't like it. The current question is whether the rest of House Republicans will like Reids bill now that it has ALSO has a balanced budget amendment that makes it little more than CC&B Mark III, and whether Pelosi can sell the SS and Medicare cuts if they don't. I suspect what Boehner will find is that the Tea Party is so committed to a balanced budget amendment, spending cuts and no tax hikes that they'll vote for it even if it includes defence cuts many of them regard as wasteful spending in the first place.
The tea party is closer to the center than the democratic leadership is. Yes you can find some issues where the polls don't favor the tea party but in the end of the day there are two facts to consider.

1. People want change and didn't get from the change guy. We have reached a strange point in history where the progressives want to keep thing going like they and the conservatives are demanding change.

Obama's delivered no more progressivism than he has change, less in fact; his centerpiece "progressive" legislation was a massive handout to insurance companies to go along with his massive handouts to Wall Street and the Big Three. Meanwhile, I fail to see how demanding we continue decades of tax cuts is "change". You starved the beast until it's nearly dead; demanding a coup de grace next Tuesday is not "change".

2. The democrats are getting some traction using scare tactics on the debt ceiling but when things are over people just might notice that the dems were willing to take us the brink to score political points with their base by fighting a tax but the expires in less than a year and half. I know the polls say Americans want tax increases and spending cuts (real ones not those Reid pretend ones that even the liberal media has scoffed at) but show me a poll where they ask if they want to risk default over a tax cut that is set to expire before the current president leaves office and that was extended by the same people who are now demanding it be killed.

If we don't raise taxes AND cut spending default is not a risk, it's a certainty; the only question is whether it happens next Tuesday or later. People on SS losing thier CoLA and telling people about to be they have to wait for Medicare they've paid for all their lives is scaring the Dem "base" (i.e. people who don't earn $250,000 and thus won't benefit from the tax cuts paid for with their retirement fund) just fine with no help from Obama.

As for how hard it is to fix he US political system, I think that helps explain why Perry isn't considered a radical in Texas by his remarks that secession isn't such a bad idea. I know the left hopes to get some traction out of those statements but it will be easy for him to turn that around and explain he was simply pointing out something almost everyone agrees with, the federal government is dysfunctional.

Dude, Perry has ZERO hope, and if you doubt that you do NOT understand where the rest of the country is. No, it won't be "easy" for him to explain why he endorsed secession; it'll remind people of the Southern Strategy you insist the Karl Rove of his day simply hallucinated. Texas governors are a BIT toxic right now, in a nation where people still blame the last one over Obama 2:1 for the economy and CBO analysis says they're about right. The only way Perry's getting to the White House is if Romney or Obama invites him to their Inauguration, which seems pretty unlikely.

Look at the polls Joel. Perry is almost even with Romney and he hasn't even started yet and Obama's approval rating is setting at 40%. More than anything else America want solutions and Obama has proven he has none to offer.

I've seen the polls, lot's of them; Perry is almost even with Romney AMONG REPUBLICANS and has been, since a poll of fundie Republicans (in SC, I think) about a month ago said he'd blow the doors off Romney and everyone else. I didn't say REPUBLICANS wouldn't nominate a TX Governor, I said the nation wouldn't elect him; personally, I hope ya'll DO nominate Perry, and not just because Romneys pedigree and wildly vacillating policy scares the hell out of me. If you want to nominate someone the country will see as Bush III (which is unfair to Bush 41, but anyway... ) be my guest.

Well I suspect that most of people small minded and petty enough to not vote for someone because they don't like someone else from the same state are already democrats so that shouldn't be a problem. No here his real problem is he really is as much of a social conservative as the media tried to claim Bush was. The libertarian wing and the independents don't want that.

Considering how much of the Tea Party sneered at Kerry (and Dukakis before him) as natives of "Taxachussets" I don't think they're all Democrats (which probably isn't great news for Romney). It's not state prejudice, its prejudice against the policies prevalent in that state. You're right about his problem, but you're speaking of it in terms of the nomination and I'm speaking of it in terms of the election; if you're worried the Tea Party (or Republican) libertarian "wing" and independents won't nominate him, imagine how the entire electorate will respond (bearing in mind that about 40% of them are liberals in the first place). It's the same arithmetic Bush faced: Get TX, the Solid South, 2/3 in FL, PA and OH, then hope you can run the table in the rural West, because New England, the West Coast and most of the Mid-West won't touch you. Unfortunately, places like NM, AZ and VA are making that math increasingly hard to satisfy. As to the media making Bush a social conservative, it's not the medias fault he responded to a national debate question by saying Jesus was his favorite philosopher, that he told a rally God wanted him to be President, that he addressed the nation from the Oval Office to say the government wouldn't fund stem cell research, or that he only got re-elected (if you accept the '04 OH returns... ) because the national GOP got the local parties in six battleground states to put gay marriage bans on the ballot and turn out the base. Bush was seen as a social conservative because that's what he is, and the only difference between him and Perry there is that Perry might even be WORSE, and more shameless about it. That, and after eight years of Bush the nation doesn't want any more leadership from anyone remotely associated with him, rightly or not.

Since you mentioned polls though, Political Wire cites one from Fox last week that shows Perry doing quite well; he's only 3% behind Romney nationally, and with Romney only 6% behind Obama that means Perry could hold Obamas victory margin to double digits! :rolleyes: Except in head to head polling Obama apparently DOES beat Perry by double digits. That poll IS a week old though; here Political Wire cites a newer one from ABC and the Washington Post that puts him "fifth among tea party Republicans nationwide with 12 percent support, about half the level of Bachmann, who was the favorite of 23 percent". He's running fifth with the people he MUST get to be nominated, and he can't be inaugurated without being nominated.
But I guess we've left third party politics behind for a partisan pissing contest, so never mind.

That is because I already said there is zero chance of change and I don't see the point of debating which version of the impossible make s the most sense.

If there's zero chance of change the nation is screwed because, whether or not it's happened, sooner or later both Republicans and Democrats will become a net detriment to the nation and it will be time to change. I don't think America has turned into Jonestown just yet, fortunately.

Then we are screwed because we are not changing our political system and our system favors two parties. If you don't like it you can always move to Norway.

That what you're telling the Tea Party, too? 'Cos, I mean, please don't; this isn't really the best time for them to visit. :[ Our SYSTEM doesn't favor two parties, the current STRUCTURE does, but in case you missed it, the current structures complete detachment from the public interest and complete inability to conduct public business is what has so many people upset. We're not talking about amending the Constitution here, we're talking about reforming a system that requires half a billion dollars to run for President while guaranteeing 2--and ONLY 2--people out of 310,000,000 will get the public to pick up most of the tab, with PACs and megacorps providing the rest. Most people don't WANT that to be systemic, find the very prospect discouraging and alarming. Defending the hopeless status quo undermines your conclusion that conservatives ironically want change while liberals don't.

With 73% of the public saying they want upper class tax hikes and 80% saying they don't want Medicare and SS cuts I'd say the public definitely wants change, and that maybe Republicans shouting, "SOCIALISM!" is the best thing Obama has going for him. However, if he doesn't actually start delivering even the mild socialism he promised instead of more corporate handouts, social spending cuts and tax breaks for the wealthy, that still may not be enough to get him re-elected.

Yet that and the strong support for a balanced budget amendment are about the only good news for Republicans in that last poll. That the public's irate with Obama but twice as mad at Republicans ought to give you some idea of where the majority of the public is but, of course, it's a two party money dominated system: Pensioners and invalids don't make $1000 campaign donations, and as long as he stays to the left of Republicans Obama's the only game in town. You ought to be LOVING him; he's delivering tax and entitlement cuts plus corporate welfare, by promising socialism, which is about the only way you can still do it. Of course, the problem with a two party system is that the only way the public can rap his knuckles for breaking his promises is to vote in an even more conservative opposition, which is what we really saw last November. Taking that as a mandate, however, was naïvely foolish, but that's hardly surprising given the big winners were people so radical they can't even work with their own party leaders.
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This message last edited by Joel on 02/08/2011 at 09:43:35 AM
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