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In that response, "they" etc. specifically means the talking heads and their defenders. Joel Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 02:44:25 PM
Ignore for a moment the labels involving "right-wing" and "extremist." You use the words "them," "they," and "their" frequently in your response to me. To whom are those third-person plurals being applied? The people who believe in violence like the killer or to those who hold conservative or ultra-conservative views? It is not really clear at times and that's why some are protesting.

It would only be natural if someone were to accuse me of being similar to the SLA of the 1970s to say "hold on, there. I'm not a radical leftist like that." While I think the Murdoch people likely are muddying the waters a bit so they can continue to employ certain labels, there are quite a few decent people with strong conservative beliefs that are going to take exception to being lumped in with those who commit horrific acts of violence. Just let the Fox News and Boltons of the world squirm a bit, but be careful of lumping others into it, as that can only lead to further arguments and sharper divisions in the future.

I appreciate that, really. I don't fault Norways Progress Party for Breiviks actions, and since he's a former member of it they can't deny all association with him or shared political views. But of course, they haven't, and there's the rub, isn't it?

When Foxs commentators and Bolton via Fox injected themselves into this horror to angrily deny the undeniable fact that Breivik shares and was motivated by much of their ideology, it immediately raised the question of whom those people are trying to convince, and far more importantly, WHY. Fox and Co. lumped themselves with Breivik, no one did it for them, despite Fox claims to the contrary. Foxs angry and manifestly false claims to share none of Breiviks politics associated the network with him; anyone adopting Foxs ludicrously indignant claims associates themselves with the network just as inevitably. Not my fault, not my responsibility; anyone who (frequently) denies affection for or agreement with Fox is free to cease the latter any time, with my blessing. I have no problem with someone saying, "I'm far right, but not a violent far right extremist like Breivik". I have BIG problems with people who can't or won't say that instead saying, "I'm far right, but not a violent extremist like Breivik--so he's not far right and how dare you libel me that way?!" It implies that extremism is innocuously acceptable and saying otherwise wrong. That's a false proposition but, as we've just been appallingly shown, also a very dangerous one. If Goldwater Republicans don't like where far right extremism leads, the simple solution is not going there.
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This message last edited by Joel on 27/07/2011 at 02:45:17 PM
  • Edit 1 by Joel on 27/07/2011 at 02:45:17 PM
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Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist). - 26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM 1301 Views
Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM* - 26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM 351 Views
How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM* - 26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM 350 Views
That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist. - 26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM 459 Views
Well said - 26/07/2011 12:11:45 PM 375 Views
Thanks. - 26/07/2011 11:46:42 PM 400 Views
Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist - 26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM 412 Views
I'm not. - 26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM 573 Views
funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left - 26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM 462 Views
No one called him "American right" - 26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM 403 Views
so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM* - 26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM 435 Views
They don't have to claim him. - 26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM 394 Views
Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man - 26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM 410 Views
I neither care nor am responsible for US media - 26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM 395 Views
this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed? - 26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM 369 Views
Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM 466 Views
Re: Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:46:47 PM 343 Views
just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist - 26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM 390 Views
People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views. - 26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM 487 Views
sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality - 26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM 494 Views
I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement, - 26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM 423 Views
once again I was referring to the use of the term in the US - 26/07/2011 08:30:48 PM 436 Views
Precisely. - 27/07/2011 12:00:33 AM 369 Views
I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy - 26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM 384 Views
Yeah, how dare we horn in on your schtick. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:43 PM 339 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2011 08:51:23 PM 284 Views
- 26/07/2011 10:16:12 PM 368 Views
Ignorance is bliss? - 26/07/2011 11:08:53 AM 385 Views
Sometimes - 26/07/2011 08:01:27 PM 422 Views
He says (through his lawyer) ... - 26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM 441 Views
funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied - 26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 369 Views
I have no idea what you're talking about. - 26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM 394 Views
Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist - 26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM 391 Views
Now I see what you mean. - 26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM 379 Views
And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste - 26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM 427 Views
I listened to that clip last night - 26/07/2011 10:26:24 AM 455 Views
Unbefuckinglievable *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:12:03 AM 322 Views
Oh, and he was also showing what a huge hypocrite he is - 26/07/2011 12:12:20 PM 460 Views
I don't want to keep saying "wow," but what else? - 26/07/2011 04:26:32 PM 372 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 01:49:02 AM 365 Views
why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid? - 26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM 452 Views
+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona..... - 26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM 379 Views
Really? (+edit) - 26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM 338 Views
no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right - 26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM 506 Views
... - 26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM 526 Views
This was my point. - 26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM 352 Views
so are you pulling crap out of thin air now? - 26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM 455 Views
You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back. - 26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM 304 Views
I may be frustrated but I think it is justified - 27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM 346 Views
I'm sorry if my comment was stupid. - 27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM 384 Views
I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you - 27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM 381 Views
Who is "traszka"? *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:33:49 PM 364 Views
'm going to try not to be offensive here, but the way I see it - 26/07/2011 04:35:54 PM 412 Views
I don't like Fox's opinion news shows and I don't watch them - 26/07/2011 06:21:01 PM 385 Views
Gah wrong place *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:07 PM 301 Views
BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right? - 26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM 343 Views
Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said? - 27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM 424 Views
He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism. - 27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM 427 Views
Joel you truly are unhinged so I am done *NM* - 27/07/2011 01:11:43 AM 368 Views
Fair enough. - 27/07/2011 01:17:43 AM 373 Views
Pretty funny - 26/07/2011 01:47:19 PM 443 Views
The worst shooting massacre in history is not "pretty funny". - 26/07/2011 11:33:59 PM 341 Views
You people all need to get a grip - 26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM 403 Views
+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM 392 Views
Try not replying next time, then. *NM* - 26/07/2011 10:10:27 PM 373 Views
That's what I'm trying to do. - 26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM 425 Views
Joel you are so full of shit - 26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM 345 Views
Read Joel's post title again, will you? - 26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 475 Views
Oh please, Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM 420 Views
Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM 416 Views
Bullshit - 27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM 420 Views
While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to - 27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM 390 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 11:50:02 AM 367 Views
I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions. - 27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM 418 Views
No trolling? And you include the first reply in that? - 27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM 448 Views
I don't know why Traska thinks that - 27/07/2011 07:37:50 PM 469 Views
yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM* - 27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM 330 Views
I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 04:00:27 PM 428 Views
Re: I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 08:09:31 PM 471 Views
extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them - 27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM 466 Views
Well - 27/07/2011 04:27:25 PM 369 Views
Joel's title and Joel's post really don't have much in common - 26/07/2011 11:52:36 PM 375 Views
Not just some guest on Fox News, also Bushs UN Ambassador. - 27/07/2011 12:32:40 AM 353 Views
One of us is. - 27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM 402 Views
maybe Legolas is right and you are to close to this *NM* - 27/07/2011 12:39:29 AM 332 Views
Wibble, but maybe. - 27/07/2011 01:15:31 AM 454 Views
not really have you seen the main board? not much action. - 26/07/2011 10:40:21 PM 356 Views
A suggestion - 27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM 369 Views
Maybe. - 27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM 491 Views
But there's a problem in all that - 27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM 557 Views
In that response, "they" etc. specifically means the talking heads and their defenders. - 27/07/2011 02:44:25 PM 360 Views
O'Reilly Shreds Media for Calling Norway Terrorist 'Christian' - 27/07/2011 05:14:30 AM 508 Views
Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand - 27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM 381 Views
I blame nested threads. - 27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM 470 Views