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In that response, "they" etc. specifically means the talking heads and their defenders. Joel Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 02:44:25 PM
Ignore for a moment the labels involving "right-wing" and "extremist." You use the words "them," "they," and "their" frequently in your response to me. To whom are those third-person plurals being applied? The people who believe in violence like the killer or to those who hold conservative or ultra-conservative views? It is not really clear at times and that's why some are protesting.

It would only be natural if someone were to accuse me of being similar to the SLA of the 1970s to say "hold on, there. I'm not a radical leftist like that." While I think the Murdoch people likely are muddying the waters a bit so they can continue to employ certain labels, there are quite a few decent people with strong conservative beliefs that are going to take exception to being lumped in with those who commit horrific acts of violence. Just let the Fox News and Boltons of the world squirm a bit, but be careful of lumping others into it, as that can only lead to further arguments and sharper divisions in the future.

I appreciate that, really. I don't fault Norways Progress Party for Breiviks actions, and since he's a former member of it they can't deny all association with him or shared political views. But of course, they haven't, and there's the rub, isn't it?

When Foxs commentators and Bolton via Fox injected themselves into this horror to angrily deny the undeniable fact that Breivik shares and was motivated by much of their ideology, it immediately raised the question of whom those people are trying to convince, and far more importantly, WHY. Fox and Co. lumped themselves with Breivik, no one did it for them, despite Fox claims to the contrary. Foxs angry and manifestly false claims to share none of Breiviks politics associated the network with him; anyone adopting Foxs ludicrously indignant claims associates themselves with the network just as inevitably. Not my fault, not my responsibility; anyone who (frequently) denies affection for or agreement with Fox is free to cease the latter any time, with my blessing. I have no problem with someone saying, "I'm far right, but not a violent far right extremist like Breivik". I have BIG problems with people who can't or won't say that instead saying, "I'm far right, but not a violent extremist like Breivik--so he's not far right and how dare you libel me that way?!" It implies that extremism is innocuously acceptable and saying otherwise wrong. That's a false proposition but, as we've just been appallingly shown, also a very dangerous one. If Goldwater Republicans don't like where far right extremism leads, the simple solution is not going there.
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This message last edited by Joel on 27/07/2011 at 02:45:17 PM
  • Edit 1 by Joel on 27/07/2011 at 02:45:17 PM
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Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist). - 26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM 1334 Views
Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM* - 26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM 384 Views
How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM* - 26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM 381 Views
That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist. - 26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM 491 Views
Well said - 26/07/2011 12:11:45 PM 403 Views
Thanks. - 26/07/2011 11:46:42 PM 431 Views
Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist - 26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM 441 Views
I'm not. - 26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM 608 Views
funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left - 26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM 493 Views
No one called him "American right" - 26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM 433 Views
so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM* - 26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM 463 Views
They don't have to claim him. - 26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM 427 Views
Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man - 26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM 442 Views
I neither care nor am responsible for US media - 26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM 424 Views
this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed? - 26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM 402 Views
Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM 507 Views
Re: Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:46:47 PM 370 Views
just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist - 26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM 421 Views
People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views. - 26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM 518 Views
sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality - 26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM 524 Views
I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement, - 26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM 457 Views
once again I was referring to the use of the term in the US - 26/07/2011 08:30:48 PM 467 Views
Precisely. - 27/07/2011 12:00:33 AM 398 Views
I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy - 26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM 410 Views
Yeah, how dare we horn in on your schtick. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:43 PM 370 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2011 08:51:23 PM 319 Views
- 26/07/2011 10:16:12 PM 403 Views
Ignorance is bliss? - 26/07/2011 11:08:53 AM 413 Views
Sometimes - 26/07/2011 08:01:27 PM 450 Views
He says (through his lawyer) ... - 26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM 473 Views
funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied - 26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 413 Views
I have no idea what you're talking about. - 26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM 432 Views
Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist - 26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM 419 Views
Now I see what you mean. - 26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM 410 Views
And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste - 26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM 460 Views
I listened to that clip last night - 26/07/2011 10:26:24 AM 478 Views
Unbefuckinglievable *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:12:03 AM 349 Views
Oh, and he was also showing what a huge hypocrite he is - 26/07/2011 12:12:20 PM 489 Views
I don't want to keep saying "wow," but what else? - 26/07/2011 04:26:32 PM 413 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 01:49:02 AM 401 Views
why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid? - 26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM 477 Views
+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona..... - 26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM 405 Views
Really? (+edit) - 26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM 368 Views
no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right - 26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM 539 Views
... - 26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM 543 Views
This was my point. - 26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM 383 Views
so are you pulling crap out of thin air now? - 26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM 487 Views
You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back. - 26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM 335 Views
I may be frustrated but I think it is justified - 27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM 377 Views
I'm sorry if my comment was stupid. - 27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM 415 Views
I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you - 27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM 409 Views
Who is "traszka"? *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:33:49 PM 384 Views
'm going to try not to be offensive here, but the way I see it - 26/07/2011 04:35:54 PM 447 Views
I don't like Fox's opinion news shows and I don't watch them - 26/07/2011 06:21:01 PM 417 Views
Gah wrong place *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:07 PM 351 Views
BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right? - 26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM 376 Views
Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said? - 27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM 457 Views
He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism. - 27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM 457 Views
Joel you truly are unhinged so I am done *NM* - 27/07/2011 01:11:43 AM 400 Views
Fair enough. - 27/07/2011 01:17:43 AM 410 Views
Pretty funny - 26/07/2011 01:47:19 PM 473 Views
The worst shooting massacre in history is not "pretty funny". - 26/07/2011 11:33:59 PM 368 Views
You people all need to get a grip - 26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM 439 Views
+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM 423 Views
Try not replying next time, then. *NM* - 26/07/2011 10:10:27 PM 402 Views
That's what I'm trying to do. - 26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM 454 Views
Joel you are so full of shit - 26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM 382 Views
Read Joel's post title again, will you? - 26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 504 Views
Oh please, Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM 450 Views
Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM 449 Views
Bullshit - 27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM 451 Views
While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to - 27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM 422 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 11:50:02 AM 400 Views
I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions. - 27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM 450 Views
No trolling? And you include the first reply in that? - 27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM 476 Views
I don't know why Traska thinks that - 27/07/2011 07:37:50 PM 509 Views
yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM* - 27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM 361 Views
I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 04:00:27 PM 460 Views
Re: I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 08:09:31 PM 510 Views
extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them - 27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM 498 Views
Well - 27/07/2011 04:27:25 PM 405 Views
Joel's title and Joel's post really don't have much in common - 26/07/2011 11:52:36 PM 416 Views
Not just some guest on Fox News, also Bushs UN Ambassador. - 27/07/2011 12:32:40 AM 384 Views
One of us is. - 27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM 438 Views
maybe Legolas is right and you are to close to this *NM* - 27/07/2011 12:39:29 AM 366 Views
Wibble, but maybe. - 27/07/2011 01:15:31 AM 487 Views
not really have you seen the main board? not much action. - 26/07/2011 10:40:21 PM 389 Views
A suggestion - 27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM 400 Views
Maybe. - 27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM 522 Views
But there's a problem in all that - 27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM 588 Views
In that response, "they" etc. specifically means the talking heads and their defenders. - 27/07/2011 02:44:25 PM 391 Views
O'Reilly Shreds Media for Calling Norway Terrorist 'Christian' - 27/07/2011 05:14:30 AM 544 Views
Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand - 27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM 415 Views
I blame nested threads. - 27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM 505 Views