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O'Reilly Shreds Media for Calling Norway Terrorist 'Christian' Joel Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 05:14:30 AM
A follow up, since a separate thread for this would be spam. I started to comment on Breiviks self identifying with Christianity just as strongly as he does conservatism, partly because he does so just as copiously, and partly to address the fact his grasp of Christianity is as warped as his grasp of conservatism. I'll go down the line:
BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: "Impact" segment tonight: mass murder in Norway. A vicious killer, Anders Breivik, has murdered at least 76 people in the Scandinavian nation of Norway. Breivik is a brutal fanatic who apparently objects to the presence of Muslims in Europe.

Last Friday he bombed buildings in Oslo and then took an automatic weapon to an island a few miles away gunning down 68 people. Norwegian authorities couldn't get to the island because they didn't have a helicopter, if you can believe it.

Now, on Sunday, the "New York Times" headlined "As Horrors Emerged, Norway Charges Christian extremist". A number of other news organizations like the "LA Times" and Reuters also played up the Christian angle. But Breivik is not a Christian. That's impossible. No one believing in Jesus commits mass murder. The man might have called himself a Christian on the net, but he is certainly not of that faith.

Jesus and His Disciples certainly condemn murder in no uncertain terms, but Christians remain capable of the full gamut of sins even after they accept Christ; we don't BECOME Christ and accepting Christianity doesn't automatically preclude any subsequent act from being sinful. According to Breiviks diary he prayed to SOMETHING shortly before the attacks. He also noted that he hadn't done so in some time; the diary seems to say he bought prostitutes far more often than he prayes, which is hardly Christian behavior anymore than mass murder. The fact remains, however, that no matter how insanely inaccurate his understanding of Christianity was, he did proudly profess Christianity as such. As a Christian that disgusts and horrifies me because his behavior repudiates everything Christ is, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend he didn't consider himself a "Christian soldier" because that flies in the face of things like declaring himself a modern Knight Templar.

Also Breivik is not attached to any church, and in fact has criticized the Protestant belief system in general. The Christian angle came from a Norwegian policeman not from any fact finding. Once again, we can find no evidence, none, that this killer practiced Christianity in any way.

No evidence, none--except calling himself a Knight Templar, engaging in prayer, however irregularly, and frequent references to being a defender of Christianity and Judeo-Christian Europe, no. Unfortunately, it's O'Reilly who (typically) either did no fact finding or simply ignored what he found, yet he makes that very accusation against a police investigator with full access to what facts have emerged.

So why is the angle being played up? Two reasons: First, the liberal media wants to make an equivalency between the actions of Breivik and the Oklahoma City bomber Tim McVeigh and al Qaeda. The left wants you to believe that fundamentalists Christians are a threat just like crazy jihadists are.

No, responsible journalists want you to know that Christian fanatics are every bit as dangerous as those of any other religion. I'm sorry, that's just a fact; that "God is love" doesn't change it any more than the fact that "Islam means 'peace'". That kind of "our side is above reproach, theirs is above excuse" thinking is what leads to excusing massacres of ones innocent foes on the grounds that they were subhuman anyway.

In fact, in the "New York Times" today an analysis piece says that some believe we have overreacted to the Muslim threat in the world. Of course, that's absurd. Jihadists have killed tens of thousands of people all over the world. The Taliban, Iran and elements in Pakistan use governmental power to support terrorism by Muslims. But the left-wing press wants to compare nuts like Breivik and McVeigh to state-sponsored terrorism and worldwide jihad.

That's a critically important and valid point: Islamic motivated terror, at least in modern times, murders on a FAR greater scale than Christian based terror because it has far more acolytes, and it has so many more acolytes because it has been allowed to take control of entire governments, mercilessly silence all opposition, indoctrinate thousands with its sociopathic propaganda, and unleash them on the world. That's a FINE argument for not allowing that to happen in America or any other country, nor allowing those with that goal to pretend being Christian rather than Muslim makes it OK.

Again, dishonest and insane.

Self diagnosing, apparently.

The second reason the liberal media is pushing the Christian angle is they don't like Christians very much because we are too judgmental. Many Christians oppose abortion. Gay marriage and legalized narcotics, secular left causes. The media understands the opposition is often based on religion. So they want to diminish Christianity and highlighting so-called Christian-based terror is a way to do that.

I'll give Bill a pass on the "judgemental" comment because Christians are obviously obligated to judge sinful ACTS despite prohibitions against judging PEOPLE; his language is more easily read to urge the former than the latter, though it IS ambiguous.

To be COMPLETELY fair, Breivik seems to often use "Christian" in the same sense that he uses "Marxist", more of an associative term to convey complex cultural identity rather than a specific ideology; he references "Judeo-Christian Europe" in a similar way. Still and so, while his actions are an insult and mockery of everything Christianity promotes, the same could be said of Mohammed Atta and Islam. The only real difference is, as O'Reilly said, that the latter was the product of an organization that was part of a national government. The lesson, therefore, is not to allow ANY such organization to spread their violence to new recruits, and take every precaution to exclude them from government office, simply as a matter of protecting the public from mass slaughter.
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Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist). - 26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM 1334 Views
Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM* - 26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM 383 Views
How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM* - 26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM 380 Views
That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist. - 26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM 491 Views
Well said - 26/07/2011 12:11:45 PM 402 Views
Thanks. - 26/07/2011 11:46:42 PM 431 Views
Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist - 26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM 440 Views
I'm not. - 26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM 607 Views
funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left - 26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM 492 Views
No one called him "American right" - 26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM 433 Views
so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM* - 26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM 463 Views
They don't have to claim him. - 26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM 427 Views
Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man - 26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM 442 Views
I neither care nor am responsible for US media - 26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM 424 Views
this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed? - 26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM 402 Views
Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM 506 Views
Re: Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:46:47 PM 369 Views
just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist - 26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM 420 Views
People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views. - 26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM 518 Views
sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality - 26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM 523 Views
I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement, - 26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM 456 Views
once again I was referring to the use of the term in the US - 26/07/2011 08:30:48 PM 466 Views
Precisely. - 27/07/2011 12:00:33 AM 398 Views
I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy - 26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM 409 Views
Yeah, how dare we horn in on your schtick. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:43 PM 370 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2011 08:51:23 PM 318 Views
- 26/07/2011 10:16:12 PM 403 Views
Ignorance is bliss? - 26/07/2011 11:08:53 AM 413 Views
Sometimes - 26/07/2011 08:01:27 PM 450 Views
He says (through his lawyer) ... - 26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM 473 Views
funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied - 26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 412 Views
I have no idea what you're talking about. - 26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM 432 Views
Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist - 26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM 419 Views
Now I see what you mean. - 26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM 410 Views
And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste - 26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM 460 Views
I listened to that clip last night - 26/07/2011 10:26:24 AM 478 Views
Unbefuckinglievable *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:12:03 AM 349 Views
Oh, and he was also showing what a huge hypocrite he is - 26/07/2011 12:12:20 PM 489 Views
I don't want to keep saying "wow," but what else? - 26/07/2011 04:26:32 PM 413 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 01:49:02 AM 401 Views
why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid? - 26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM 477 Views
+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona..... - 26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM 405 Views
Really? (+edit) - 26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM 368 Views
no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right - 26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM 539 Views
... - 26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM 543 Views
This was my point. - 26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM 382 Views
so are you pulling crap out of thin air now? - 26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM 486 Views
You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back. - 26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM 334 Views
I may be frustrated but I think it is justified - 27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM 377 Views
I'm sorry if my comment was stupid. - 27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM 415 Views
I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you - 27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM 409 Views
Who is "traszka"? *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:33:49 PM 384 Views
'm going to try not to be offensive here, but the way I see it - 26/07/2011 04:35:54 PM 446 Views
I don't like Fox's opinion news shows and I don't watch them - 26/07/2011 06:21:01 PM 417 Views
Gah wrong place *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:07 PM 351 Views
BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right? - 26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM 375 Views
Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said? - 27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM 456 Views
He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism. - 27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM 456 Views
Joel you truly are unhinged so I am done *NM* - 27/07/2011 01:11:43 AM 400 Views
Fair enough. - 27/07/2011 01:17:43 AM 410 Views
Pretty funny - 26/07/2011 01:47:19 PM 473 Views
The worst shooting massacre in history is not "pretty funny". - 26/07/2011 11:33:59 PM 367 Views
You people all need to get a grip - 26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM 439 Views
+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM 423 Views
Try not replying next time, then. *NM* - 26/07/2011 10:10:27 PM 402 Views
That's what I'm trying to do. - 26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM 454 Views
Joel you are so full of shit - 26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM 381 Views
Read Joel's post title again, will you? - 26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 503 Views
Oh please, Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM 449 Views
Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM 449 Views
Bullshit - 27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM 451 Views
While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to - 27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM 421 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 11:50:02 AM 400 Views
I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions. - 27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM 450 Views
No trolling? And you include the first reply in that? - 27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM 476 Views
I don't know why Traska thinks that - 27/07/2011 07:37:50 PM 509 Views
yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM* - 27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM 360 Views
I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 04:00:27 PM 459 Views
Re: I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 08:09:31 PM 509 Views
extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them - 27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM 498 Views
Well - 27/07/2011 04:27:25 PM 404 Views
Joel's title and Joel's post really don't have much in common - 26/07/2011 11:52:36 PM 416 Views
Not just some guest on Fox News, also Bushs UN Ambassador. - 27/07/2011 12:32:40 AM 383 Views
One of us is. - 27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM 437 Views
maybe Legolas is right and you are to close to this *NM* - 27/07/2011 12:39:29 AM 365 Views
Wibble, but maybe. - 27/07/2011 01:15:31 AM 487 Views
not really have you seen the main board? not much action. - 26/07/2011 10:40:21 PM 389 Views
A suggestion - 27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM 399 Views
Maybe. - 27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM 521 Views
But there's a problem in all that - 27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM 588 Views
O'Reilly Shreds Media for Calling Norway Terrorist 'Christian' - 27/07/2011 05:14:30 AM 544 Views
Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand - 27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM 415 Views
I blame nested threads. - 27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM 505 Views