O'Reilly Shreds Media for Calling Norway Terrorist 'Christian'
Joel Send a noteboard - 27/07/2011 05:14:30 AM
A follow up, since a separate thread for this would be spam. I started to comment on Breiviks self identifying with Christianity just as strongly as he does conservatism, partly because he does so just as copiously, and partly to address the fact his grasp of Christianity is as warped as his grasp of conservatism. I'll go down the line:
BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: "Impact" segment tonight: mass murder in Norway. A vicious killer, Anders Breivik, has murdered at least 76 people in the Scandinavian nation of Norway. Breivik is a brutal fanatic who apparently objects to the presence of Muslims in Europe.
Last Friday he bombed buildings in Oslo and then took an automatic weapon to an island a few miles away gunning down 68 people. Norwegian authorities couldn't get to the island because they didn't have a helicopter, if you can believe it.
Now, on Sunday, the "New York Times" headlined "As Horrors Emerged, Norway Charges Christian extremist". A number of other news organizations like the "LA Times" and Reuters also played up the Christian angle. But Breivik is not a Christian. That's impossible. No one believing in Jesus commits mass murder. The man might have called himself a Christian on the net, but he is certainly not of that faith.
Jesus and His Disciples certainly condemn murder in no uncertain terms, but Christians remain capable of the full gamut of sins even after they accept Christ; we don't BECOME Christ and accepting Christianity doesn't automatically preclude any subsequent act from being sinful. According to Breiviks diary he prayed to SOMETHING shortly before the attacks. He also noted that he hadn't done so in some time; the diary seems to say he bought prostitutes far more often than he prayes, which is hardly Christian behavior anymore than mass murder. The fact remains, however, that no matter how insanely inaccurate his understanding of Christianity was, he did proudly profess Christianity as such. As a Christian that disgusts and horrifies me because his behavior repudiates everything Christ is, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend he didn't consider himself a "Christian soldier" because that flies in the face of things like declaring himself a modern Knight Templar.
Also Breivik is not attached to any church, and in fact has criticized the Protestant belief system in general. The Christian angle came from a Norwegian policeman not from any fact finding. Once again, we can find no evidence, none, that this killer practiced Christianity in any way.
No evidence, none--except calling himself a Knight Templar, engaging in prayer, however irregularly, and frequent references to being a defender of Christianity and Judeo-Christian Europe, no. Unfortunately, it's O'Reilly who (typically) either did no fact finding or simply ignored what he found, yet he makes that very accusation against a police investigator with full access to what facts have emerged.
So why is the angle being played up? Two reasons: First, the liberal media wants to make an equivalency between the actions of Breivik and the Oklahoma City bomber Tim McVeigh and al Qaeda. The left wants you to believe that fundamentalists Christians are a threat just like crazy jihadists are.
No, responsible journalists want you to know that Christian fanatics are every bit as dangerous as those of any other religion. I'm sorry, that's just a fact; that "God is love" doesn't change it any more than the fact that "Islam means 'peace'". That kind of "our side is above reproach, theirs is above excuse" thinking is what leads to excusing massacres of ones innocent foes on the grounds that they were subhuman anyway.
In fact, in the "New York Times" today an analysis piece says that some believe we have overreacted to the Muslim threat in the world. Of course, that's absurd. Jihadists have killed tens of thousands of people all over the world. The Taliban, Iran and elements in Pakistan use governmental power to support terrorism by Muslims. But the left-wing press wants to compare nuts like Breivik and McVeigh to state-sponsored terrorism and worldwide jihad.
That's a critically important and valid point: Islamic motivated terror, at least in modern times, murders on a FAR greater scale than Christian based terror because it has far more acolytes, and it has so many more acolytes because it has been allowed to take control of entire governments, mercilessly silence all opposition, indoctrinate thousands with its sociopathic propaganda, and unleash them on the world. That's a FINE argument for not allowing that to happen in America or any other country, nor allowing those with that goal to pretend being Christian rather than Muslim makes it OK.
Again, dishonest and insane.
Self diagnosing, apparently.
The second reason the liberal media is pushing the Christian angle is they don't like Christians very much because we are too judgmental. Many Christians oppose abortion. Gay marriage and legalized narcotics, secular left causes. The media understands the opposition is often based on religion. So they want to diminish Christianity and highlighting so-called Christian-based terror is a way to do that.
I'll give Bill a pass on the "judgemental" comment because Christians are obviously obligated to judge sinful ACTS despite prohibitions against judging PEOPLE; his language is more easily read to urge the former than the latter, though it IS ambiguous.
To be COMPLETELY fair, Breivik seems to often use "Christian" in the same sense that he uses "Marxist", more of an associative term to convey complex cultural identity rather than a specific ideology; he references "Judeo-Christian Europe" in a similar way. Still and so, while his actions are an insult and mockery of everything Christianity promotes, the same could be said of Mohammed Atta and Islam. The only real difference is, as O'Reilly said, that the latter was the product of an organization that was part of a national government. The lesson, therefore, is not to allow ANY such organization to spread their violence to new recruits, and take every precaution to exclude them from government office, simply as a matter of protecting the public from mass slaughter.
BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS HOST: "Impact" segment tonight: mass murder in Norway. A vicious killer, Anders Breivik, has murdered at least 76 people in the Scandinavian nation of Norway. Breivik is a brutal fanatic who apparently objects to the presence of Muslims in Europe.
Last Friday he bombed buildings in Oslo and then took an automatic weapon to an island a few miles away gunning down 68 people. Norwegian authorities couldn't get to the island because they didn't have a helicopter, if you can believe it.
Now, on Sunday, the "New York Times" headlined "As Horrors Emerged, Norway Charges Christian extremist". A number of other news organizations like the "LA Times" and Reuters also played up the Christian angle. But Breivik is not a Christian. That's impossible. No one believing in Jesus commits mass murder. The man might have called himself a Christian on the net, but he is certainly not of that faith.
Jesus and His Disciples certainly condemn murder in no uncertain terms, but Christians remain capable of the full gamut of sins even after they accept Christ; we don't BECOME Christ and accepting Christianity doesn't automatically preclude any subsequent act from being sinful. According to Breiviks diary he prayed to SOMETHING shortly before the attacks. He also noted that he hadn't done so in some time; the diary seems to say he bought prostitutes far more often than he prayes, which is hardly Christian behavior anymore than mass murder. The fact remains, however, that no matter how insanely inaccurate his understanding of Christianity was, he did proudly profess Christianity as such. As a Christian that disgusts and horrifies me because his behavior repudiates everything Christ is, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend he didn't consider himself a "Christian soldier" because that flies in the face of things like declaring himself a modern Knight Templar.
Also Breivik is not attached to any church, and in fact has criticized the Protestant belief system in general. The Christian angle came from a Norwegian policeman not from any fact finding. Once again, we can find no evidence, none, that this killer practiced Christianity in any way.
No evidence, none--except calling himself a Knight Templar, engaging in prayer, however irregularly, and frequent references to being a defender of Christianity and Judeo-Christian Europe, no. Unfortunately, it's O'Reilly who (typically) either did no fact finding or simply ignored what he found, yet he makes that very accusation against a police investigator with full access to what facts have emerged.
So why is the angle being played up? Two reasons: First, the liberal media wants to make an equivalency between the actions of Breivik and the Oklahoma City bomber Tim McVeigh and al Qaeda. The left wants you to believe that fundamentalists Christians are a threat just like crazy jihadists are.
No, responsible journalists want you to know that Christian fanatics are every bit as dangerous as those of any other religion. I'm sorry, that's just a fact; that "God is love" doesn't change it any more than the fact that "Islam means 'peace'". That kind of "our side is above reproach, theirs is above excuse" thinking is what leads to excusing massacres of ones innocent foes on the grounds that they were subhuman anyway.
In fact, in the "New York Times" today an analysis piece says that some believe we have overreacted to the Muslim threat in the world. Of course, that's absurd. Jihadists have killed tens of thousands of people all over the world. The Taliban, Iran and elements in Pakistan use governmental power to support terrorism by Muslims. But the left-wing press wants to compare nuts like Breivik and McVeigh to state-sponsored terrorism and worldwide jihad.
That's a critically important and valid point: Islamic motivated terror, at least in modern times, murders on a FAR greater scale than Christian based terror because it has far more acolytes, and it has so many more acolytes because it has been allowed to take control of entire governments, mercilessly silence all opposition, indoctrinate thousands with its sociopathic propaganda, and unleash them on the world. That's a FINE argument for not allowing that to happen in America or any other country, nor allowing those with that goal to pretend being Christian rather than Muslim makes it OK.
Again, dishonest and insane.
Self diagnosing, apparently.
The second reason the liberal media is pushing the Christian angle is they don't like Christians very much because we are too judgmental. Many Christians oppose abortion. Gay marriage and legalized narcotics, secular left causes. The media understands the opposition is often based on religion. So they want to diminish Christianity and highlighting so-called Christian-based terror is a way to do that.
I'll give Bill a pass on the "judgemental" comment because Christians are obviously obligated to judge sinful ACTS despite prohibitions against judging PEOPLE; his language is more easily read to urge the former than the latter, though it IS ambiguous.
To be COMPLETELY fair, Breivik seems to often use "Christian" in the same sense that he uses "Marxist", more of an associative term to convey complex cultural identity rather than a specific ideology; he references "Judeo-Christian Europe" in a similar way. Still and so, while his actions are an insult and mockery of everything Christianity promotes, the same could be said of Mohammed Atta and Islam. The only real difference is, as O'Reilly said, that the latter was the product of an organization that was part of a national government. The lesson, therefore, is not to allow ANY such organization to spread their violence to new recruits, and take every precaution to exclude them from government office, simply as a matter of protecting the public from mass slaughter.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist).
26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM
- 1302 Views
Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM*
26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM
- 351 Views
How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM*
26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM
- 351 Views
That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist.
26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM
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Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist
26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM
- 412 Views
I'm not.
26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM
- 574 Views
funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left
26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM
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No one called him "American right"
26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM
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so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM*
26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM
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They don't have to claim him.
26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM
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Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man
26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM
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I neither care nor am responsible for US media
26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM
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this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed?
26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM
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Yes but I didn't reply to the main article, but to Trzaska being ignorant
26/07/2011 04:36:52 PM
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Just to be clear
26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM
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just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist
26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM
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People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views.
26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM
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sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality
26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM
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I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement,
26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM
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See, the thing with an extremist, is that he doesn't have all that much in common with
26/07/2011 03:59:05 PM
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A right OR left wing extremist is just that; that's why your mouthpieces are so defensive.
26/07/2011 10:40:46 PM
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I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy
26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM
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He murders kids because they're liberal, you spit on their graves: You both belong in an asylum.
26/07/2011 07:54:08 AM
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Aaaaaaand you are back on my ignore list. Thanks for confirming my original instincts were right. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:18:25 AM
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He says (through his lawyer) ...
26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM
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funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied
26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM
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I have no idea what you're talking about.
26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM
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Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist
26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM
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Now I see what you mean.
26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM
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I would argue that his actions were tied to his beliefs on the specific issue of immigration
26/07/2011 06:11:23 PM
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And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste
26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM
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I'm seriously wondering if attacking the victims here will be the tipping point for US fascists.
26/07/2011 10:30:33 AM
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why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid?
26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM
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+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona.....
26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM
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Really? (+edit)
26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM
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no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right
26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM
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...
26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM
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if the term doesn't fit in the US then it makes no sense for US media to use the term here
26/07/2011 08:14:40 PM
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This was my point.
26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM
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so are you pulling crap out of thin air now?
26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM
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You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back.
26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM
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I may be frustrated but I think it is justified
27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM
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I'm sorry if my comment was stupid.
27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM
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I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you
27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM
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It's the liberals fault they were murdered; I get that that's the American far right argument.
26/07/2011 11:09:25 PM
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BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right?
26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM
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Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said?
27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM
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He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism.
27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM
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Wow. Let's just make this about us, why don't we?
26/07/2011 04:19:06 PM
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oh please the left is one trying to make about the right
26/07/2011 04:36:39 PM
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I'm referring to all Americans (both sides) who are currently fighting this out.
26/07/2011 04:44:45 PM
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I agree 100% that this issue shouldn't be used in American politics
26/07/2011 06:33:48 PM
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To Hell with them; even the normally indulgent American public will put them in a rubber room soon.
26/07/2011 11:36:13 PM
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You people all need to get a grip
26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM
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+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM*
26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM
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No, you do not agree with what Wibble said. Your +1 makes zero sense. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:11:31 PM
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That's what I'm trying to do.
26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM
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You are too close to this just now.
26/07/2011 10:17:22 PM
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Probably,but that it happened in perhaps the safest most liberal place on Earth makes it inescapable
27/07/2011 12:26:45 AM
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Joel you are so full of shit
26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM
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Read Joel's post title again, will you?
26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM
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Oh please, Legolas
26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM
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Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM
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Bullshit
27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM
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For the record, I've always supported guns for self defense (and hunting, and liberty from tyranny).
27/07/2011 10:52:02 AM
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While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to
27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM
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I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions.
27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM
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No trolling? And you include the first reply in that?
27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM
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so is the troll the person who makes the point or is the people who refuse to acknowledge it
27/07/2011 02:41:31 PM
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Do you think trz was right to call him an ultra left wing anarchist?
27/07/2011 04:15:50 PM
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I assumed he was referring to me when talked about picking fights with people
27/07/2011 05:53:43 PM
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yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM*
27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM
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extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them
27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM
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One of us is.
27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM
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Anyone saying Brevik has nothing in common with the American "Right" is lying to themselves
26/07/2011 08:49:29 PM
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glad you could come along, someone has to represent the ignorant kool-aid drinkers
26/07/2011 10:29:52 PM
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I don't mind them lying to themselves,but promoting the lie incites violent persecution complexes
26/07/2011 11:40:48 PM
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A suggestion
27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM
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Maybe.
27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM
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But there's a problem in all that
27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM
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In that response, "they" etc. specifically means the talking heads and their defenders.
27/07/2011 02:44:25 PM
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O'Reilly Shreds Media for Calling Norway Terrorist 'Christian'
27/07/2011 05:14:30 AM
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Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand
27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM
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I blame nested threads.
27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM
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Personally, I blame your need to have the final post in every conversation
27/07/2011 10:27:30 PM
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