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I would argue that his actions were tied to his beliefs on the specific issue of immigration random thoughts Send a noteboard - 26/07/2011 06:11:23 PM
The reason you can't think of any examples is because as I believe I have mentioned the press doesn't use the far left tag for far left wackos like they use it for far right wackos. When environmental terrorist or PETA terrorist attack they are not called far left extremist. When mobs of angry far left students attack summits or throw pies in the faces of conservative speakers they are not called far left extremist. Angry senior citizens yelling at congressman are either concerned citizens (if they are on the left) or tea party extremist if the they are on the right (even if they have nothing to do with the tea party) See the pattern?

The environmental and PETA examples are ones I can relate to. I've got no idea about typical media coverage for Kaczynski. The thing with those two examples, though, is that their identity appears to be tied up much more strongly with their specific grievances (the environment and animal cruelty) than with their political leanings. When such people commit illegal acts, they are doing so in the name of their specific issues, not in the name of their political leaning. This guy in Norway and his actions are very much tied to his political ideology, and to ignore that would be a disservice. You do however make a fair point that the US media tends to focus too much on sides.


My point was the US media tends to focus on sides only when it helps to sell the narrative that the right is dangerous extremist. That was my point. This man is no less politically motivated than the far left nutters but all we hear about is how he is a right wing extremest while they are simply environmental extremest. Why not call him an immigration extremist or if that isn't broad enough simply call him a fascist but don't use terms that confuse him with main stream political movements?


I think it is fair for people on right to say this man doesn't in any way represent me or my beliefs. I really don't know enough about the European right to make the same argument but from a US point of view he doesn't represent a person who has taken the conservatives beliefs to far, I have not seen a single one of his beliefs that I agree with any more than your average democrat would agree with. So yes I object to him being used to represent my beliefs in way shape or form. Could his believes be labeled far right? possibly but to constantly use a term that links him to a political movement he had nothing to do with and who had nothing to do with him is no accident. Since the left right description is so misleading honest journalist would avoid it all together in order to not create a false impression. Dishonest journalist looking to create that false impression or simply to ignorant to understand the difference would do the opposite.

It's fair to take exception to people equating this guy and his actions to the US right. As I said before, people who do that are being thick-headed. However, do you not believe that there are people in the US (on the far right) who hate the immigration of Muslims and/or Marxist ideas? I'm not American, but it seems to me that such people do exist in the US too ...


Some of the worst racism and bigotry you will find in the US comes from our Unions so I object to the very notion that bigotry and racism is a left right issue. The idea that racism is a politically right idea in the US is and always has been bogus. The reason we can't pass a immigration reform bill no matter which party is in control is the issue divides the political parties.

What is fairer to say is that trying to equate this guy with the Republican party and its beliefs is what is truly thick-headed and disingenuous. But the Norway guy is most definitely a right-wing extremist. Right wing and left wing is a political designation that goes far beyond the divide in the US. It's dumb if either side is trying to use him to cast blame on the other side in the US.


I agree with everything you said right there, in fact that was the point I was making. I object to either side trying to use this for politics by trying to tie this mad man around the other sides neck. His views on immigration are extreme and that is where the focus should be not if he is politically right or politically left. I really can't speak to his views on Marxism since we have so little of that here I assume anyone using the term is practicing hyperbole.

But this is getting well away from why I actually responded in the first place. The thing I was responding to was trzaska saying that this guy is a left-wing anarchist. He's not. It's a ridiculous statement, and he's being rightfully called on it.


very true. I guess I should have been more clear from the start that I wasn't supporting that idea. let me be clear now, I don't believe he is a left winger and by European standards he very likely a far right. I object to that term being used to refer to him in the US since it means something different over here.

The far left in this country has been making a concentrated effort to paint anyone who opposes them as extremest. It is dishonest and despicable tactic that amounts to little more than censorship and they should be challenged every single time they attempt to use. It is the price we pay for letting a single political group take over our media and our universities.

I think you're being a little hyperbolic. Personally I think the whole political divide in the US is childish and unhelpful, but it's very real and it's not getting any better. I do have to wonder though ... given the media clout of Rupert Murdoch (and he's not the only right-leaning media power), can you really say that the left wing has "taken over" the US media? How do you define "taken over"? Obviously it's very far from 100% control.


I am not being hyperbolic there is no end to the evidence to support my claim that our media is biased. The simple fact that they will admit that they are almost all of the same minority political view point but expect the rest of us to believe that their echo chamber existence and unwillingness to allow differing opinions on their staff in no way affect their coverage is really to silly of an argument to even entertain. my five year old would not believe an argument like that if you look at the polls the majority of Americans don't believe it either.

Most Americans still get the news from the TV. For national news we have four broadcast companies, PBS, ABC, NBC and CBS. All four or left leaning to the point that bias really isn't even a question. Name the consecrative news anchor for any of these networks. You can't but it is really is to name the liberal ones. ON cable you have CNN, FOX and MSNBC. CNN is left MSNBC is so far to the left they can barely be called a news network. So out of 7 news networks 6 are liberal and 1 is consecrative. 20% of the country is liberal while over 40% is consecrative and all we hear form the left is none stop whining about how Fox News is ruining America and their open desire to see it shut down.
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Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist). - 26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM 1301 Views
Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM* - 26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM 351 Views
How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM* - 26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM 350 Views
That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist. - 26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM 459 Views
Well said - 26/07/2011 12:11:45 PM 375 Views
Thanks. - 26/07/2011 11:46:42 PM 400 Views
Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist - 26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM 412 Views
I'm not. - 26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM 573 Views
funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left - 26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM 462 Views
No one called him "American right" - 26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM 403 Views
so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM* - 26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM 435 Views
They don't have to claim him. - 26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM 394 Views
Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man - 26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM 410 Views
I neither care nor am responsible for US media - 26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM 395 Views
this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed? - 26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM 369 Views
Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM 465 Views
Re: Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:46:47 PM 343 Views
just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist - 26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM 390 Views
People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views. - 26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM 487 Views
sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality - 26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM 494 Views
I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement, - 26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM 423 Views
once again I was referring to the use of the term in the US - 26/07/2011 08:30:48 PM 435 Views
Precisely. - 27/07/2011 12:00:33 AM 369 Views
I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy - 26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM 384 Views
Yeah, how dare we horn in on your schtick. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:43 PM 339 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2011 08:51:23 PM 284 Views
- 26/07/2011 10:16:12 PM 368 Views
Ignorance is bliss? - 26/07/2011 11:08:53 AM 385 Views
Sometimes - 26/07/2011 08:01:27 PM 422 Views
He says (through his lawyer) ... - 26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM 441 Views
funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied - 26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 369 Views
I have no idea what you're talking about. - 26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM 394 Views
Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist - 26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM 391 Views
Now I see what you mean. - 26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM 379 Views
I would argue that his actions were tied to his beliefs on the specific issue of immigration - 26/07/2011 06:11:23 PM 305 Views
And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste - 26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM 427 Views
I listened to that clip last night - 26/07/2011 10:26:24 AM 454 Views
Unbefuckinglievable *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:12:03 AM 322 Views
Oh, and he was also showing what a huge hypocrite he is - 26/07/2011 12:12:20 PM 460 Views
I don't want to keep saying "wow," but what else? - 26/07/2011 04:26:32 PM 372 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 01:49:02 AM 365 Views
why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid? - 26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM 452 Views
+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona..... - 26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM 379 Views
Really? (+edit) - 26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM 338 Views
no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right - 26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM 506 Views
... - 26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM 526 Views
This was my point. - 26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM 352 Views
so are you pulling crap out of thin air now? - 26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM 455 Views
You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back. - 26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM 304 Views
I may be frustrated but I think it is justified - 27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM 345 Views
I'm sorry if my comment was stupid. - 27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM 384 Views
I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you - 27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM 381 Views
Who is "traszka"? *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:33:49 PM 364 Views
'm going to try not to be offensive here, but the way I see it - 26/07/2011 04:35:54 PM 412 Views
I don't like Fox's opinion news shows and I don't watch them - 26/07/2011 06:21:01 PM 385 Views
Gah wrong place *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:07 PM 301 Views
BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right? - 26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM 343 Views
Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said? - 27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM 424 Views
He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism. - 27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM 426 Views
Joel you truly are unhinged so I am done *NM* - 27/07/2011 01:11:43 AM 368 Views
Fair enough. - 27/07/2011 01:17:43 AM 373 Views
Pretty funny - 26/07/2011 01:47:19 PM 443 Views
The worst shooting massacre in history is not "pretty funny". - 26/07/2011 11:33:59 PM 341 Views
You people all need to get a grip - 26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM 403 Views
+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM 391 Views
Try not replying next time, then. *NM* - 26/07/2011 10:10:27 PM 373 Views
That's what I'm trying to do. - 26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM 425 Views
Joel you are so full of shit - 26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM 345 Views
Read Joel's post title again, will you? - 26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 475 Views
Oh please, Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM 420 Views
Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM 416 Views
Bullshit - 27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM 420 Views
While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to - 27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM 389 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 11:50:02 AM 367 Views
I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions. - 27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM 417 Views
No trolling? And you include the first reply in that? - 27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM 448 Views
I don't know why Traska thinks that - 27/07/2011 07:37:50 PM 469 Views
yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM* - 27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM 330 Views
I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 04:00:27 PM 428 Views
Re: I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 08:09:31 PM 471 Views
extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them - 27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM 466 Views
Well - 27/07/2011 04:27:25 PM 369 Views
Joel's title and Joel's post really don't have much in common - 26/07/2011 11:52:36 PM 375 Views
Not just some guest on Fox News, also Bushs UN Ambassador. - 27/07/2011 12:32:40 AM 353 Views
One of us is. - 27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM 402 Views
maybe Legolas is right and you are to close to this *NM* - 27/07/2011 12:39:29 AM 332 Views
Wibble, but maybe. - 27/07/2011 01:15:31 AM 454 Views
not really have you seen the main board? not much action. - 26/07/2011 10:40:21 PM 356 Views
A suggestion - 27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM 368 Views
Maybe. - 27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM 491 Views
But there's a problem in all that - 27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM 557 Views
O'Reilly Shreds Media for Calling Norway Terrorist 'Christian' - 27/07/2011 05:14:30 AM 508 Views
Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand - 27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM 381 Views
I blame nested threads. - 27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM 470 Views