I would argue that his actions were tied to his beliefs on the specific issue of immigration
random thoughts Send a noteboard - 26/07/2011 06:11:23 PM
The reason you can't think of any examples is because as I believe I have mentioned the press doesn't use the far left tag for far left wackos like they use it for far right wackos. When environmental terrorist or PETA terrorist attack they are not called far left extremist. When mobs of angry far left students attack summits or throw pies in the faces of conservative speakers they are not called far left extremist. Angry senior citizens yelling at congressman are either concerned citizens (if they are on the left) or tea party extremist if the they are on the right (even if they have nothing to do with the tea party) See the pattern?
The environmental and PETA examples are ones I can relate to. I've got no idea about typical media coverage for Kaczynski. The thing with those two examples, though, is that their identity appears to be tied up much more strongly with their specific grievances (the environment and animal cruelty) than with their political leanings. When such people commit illegal acts, they are doing so in the name of their specific issues, not in the name of their political leaning. This guy in Norway and his actions are very much tied to his political ideology, and to ignore that would be a disservice. You do however make a fair point that the US media tends to focus too much on sides.
My point was the US media tends to focus on sides only when it helps to sell the narrative that the right is dangerous extremist. That was my point. This man is no less politically motivated than the far left nutters but all we hear about is how he is a right wing extremest while they are simply environmental extremest. Why not call him an immigration extremist or if that isn't broad enough simply call him a fascist but don't use terms that confuse him with main stream political movements?
I think it is fair for people on right to say this man doesn't in any way represent me or my beliefs. I really don't know enough about the European right to make the same argument but from a US point of view he doesn't represent a person who has taken the conservatives beliefs to far, I have not seen a single one of his beliefs that I agree with any more than your average democrat would agree with. So yes I object to him being used to represent my beliefs in way shape or form. Could his believes be labeled far right? possibly but to constantly use a term that links him to a political movement he had nothing to do with and who had nothing to do with him is no accident. Since the left right description is so misleading honest journalist would avoid it all together in order to not create a false impression. Dishonest journalist looking to create that false impression or simply to ignorant to understand the difference would do the opposite.
It's fair to take exception to people equating this guy and his actions to the US right. As I said before, people who do that are being thick-headed. However, do you not believe that there are people in the US (on the far right) who hate the immigration of Muslims and/or Marxist ideas? I'm not American, but it seems to me that such people do exist in the US too ...
Some of the worst racism and bigotry you will find in the US comes from our Unions so I object to the very notion that bigotry and racism is a left right issue. The idea that racism is a politically right idea in the US is and always has been bogus. The reason we can't pass a immigration reform bill no matter which party is in control is the issue divides the political parties.
What is fairer to say is that trying to equate this guy with the Republican party and its beliefs is what is truly thick-headed and disingenuous. But the Norway guy is most definitely a right-wing extremist. Right wing and left wing is a political designation that goes far beyond the divide in the US. It's dumb if either side is trying to use him to cast blame on the other side in the US.
I agree with everything you said right there, in fact that was the point I was making. I object to either side trying to use this for politics by trying to tie this mad man around the other sides neck. His views on immigration are extreme and that is where the focus should be not if he is politically right or politically left. I really can't speak to his views on Marxism since we have so little of that here I assume anyone using the term is practicing hyperbole.
But this is getting well away from why I actually responded in the first place. The thing I was responding to was trzaska saying that this guy is a left-wing anarchist. He's not. It's a ridiculous statement, and he's being rightfully called on it.
very true. I guess I should have been more clear from the start that I wasn't supporting that idea. let me be clear now, I don't believe he is a left winger and by European standards he very likely a far right. I object to that term being used to refer to him in the US since it means something different over here.
The far left in this country has been making a concentrated effort to paint anyone who opposes them as extremest. It is dishonest and despicable tactic that amounts to little more than censorship and they should be challenged every single time they attempt to use. It is the price we pay for letting a single political group take over our media and our universities.
I think you're being a little hyperbolic. Personally I think the whole political divide in the US is childish and unhelpful, but it's very real and it's not getting any better. I do have to wonder though ... given the media clout of Rupert Murdoch (and he's not the only right-leaning media power), can you really say that the left wing has "taken over" the US media? How do you define "taken over"? Obviously it's very far from 100% control.
I am not being hyperbolic there is no end to the evidence to support my claim that our media is biased. The simple fact that they will admit that they are almost all of the same minority political view point but expect the rest of us to believe that their echo chamber existence and unwillingness to allow differing opinions on their staff in no way affect their coverage is really to silly of an argument to even entertain. my five year old would not believe an argument like that if you look at the polls the majority of Americans don't believe it either.
Most Americans still get the news from the TV. For national news we have four broadcast companies, PBS, ABC, NBC and CBS. All four or left leaning to the point that bias really isn't even a question. Name the consecrative news anchor for any of these networks. You can't but it is really is to name the liberal ones. ON cable you have CNN, FOX and MSNBC. CNN is left MSNBC is so far to the left they can barely be called a news network. So out of 7 news networks 6 are liberal and 1 is consecrative. 20% of the country is liberal while over 40% is consecrative and all we hear form the left is none stop whining about how Fox News is ruining America and their open desire to see it shut down.
Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist).
26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM
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Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM*
26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM
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How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM*
26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM
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That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist.
26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM
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Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist
26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM
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I'm not.
26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM
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funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left
26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM
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No one called him "American right"
26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM
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so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM*
26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM
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They don't have to claim him.
26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM
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Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man
26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM
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I neither care nor am responsible for US media
26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM
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this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed?
26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM
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Yes but I didn't reply to the main article, but to Trzaska being ignorant
26/07/2011 04:36:52 PM
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Just to be clear
26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM
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just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist
26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM
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People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views.
26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM
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sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality
26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM
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I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement,
26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM
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See, the thing with an extremist, is that he doesn't have all that much in common with
26/07/2011 03:59:05 PM
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A right OR left wing extremist is just that; that's why your mouthpieces are so defensive.
26/07/2011 10:40:46 PM
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I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy
26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM
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He murders kids because they're liberal, you spit on their graves: You both belong in an asylum.
26/07/2011 07:54:08 AM
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Aaaaaaand you are back on my ignore list. Thanks for confirming my original instincts were right. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:18:25 AM
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He says (through his lawyer) ...
26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM
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funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied
26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM
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I have no idea what you're talking about.
26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM
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Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist
26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM
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Now I see what you mean.
26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM
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I would argue that his actions were tied to his beliefs on the specific issue of immigration
26/07/2011 06:11:23 PM
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And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste
26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM
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I'm seriously wondering if attacking the victims here will be the tipping point for US fascists.
26/07/2011 10:30:33 AM
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why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid?
26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM
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+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona.....
26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM
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Really? (+edit)
26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM
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no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right
26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM
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...
26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM
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if the term doesn't fit in the US then it makes no sense for US media to use the term here
26/07/2011 08:14:40 PM
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This was my point.
26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM
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so are you pulling crap out of thin air now?
26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM
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You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back.
26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM
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I may be frustrated but I think it is justified
27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM
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I'm sorry if my comment was stupid.
27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM
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I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you
27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM
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It's the liberals fault they were murdered; I get that that's the American far right argument.
26/07/2011 11:09:25 PM
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BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right?
26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM
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Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said?
27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM
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He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism.
27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM
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Wow. Let's just make this about us, why don't we?
26/07/2011 04:19:06 PM
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oh please the left is one trying to make about the right
26/07/2011 04:36:39 PM
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I'm referring to all Americans (both sides) who are currently fighting this out.
26/07/2011 04:44:45 PM
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I agree 100% that this issue shouldn't be used in American politics
26/07/2011 06:33:48 PM
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To Hell with them; even the normally indulgent American public will put them in a rubber room soon.
26/07/2011 11:36:13 PM
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You people all need to get a grip
26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM
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+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM*
26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM
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No, you do not agree with what Wibble said. Your +1 makes zero sense. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:11:31 PM
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That's what I'm trying to do.
26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM
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You are too close to this just now.
26/07/2011 10:17:22 PM
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Probably,but that it happened in perhaps the safest most liberal place on Earth makes it inescapable
27/07/2011 12:26:45 AM
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Joel you are so full of shit
26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM
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Read Joel's post title again, will you?
26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM
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Oh please, Legolas
26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM
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Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM
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Bullshit
27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM
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For the record, I've always supported guns for self defense (and hunting, and liberty from tyranny).
27/07/2011 10:52:02 AM
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While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to
27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM
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I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions.
27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM
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No trolling? And you include the first reply in that?
27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM
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so is the troll the person who makes the point or is the people who refuse to acknowledge it
27/07/2011 02:41:31 PM
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Do you think trz was right to call him an ultra left wing anarchist?
27/07/2011 04:15:50 PM
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I assumed he was referring to me when talked about picking fights with people
27/07/2011 05:53:43 PM
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yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM*
27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM
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extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them
27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM
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One of us is.
27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM
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Anyone saying Brevik has nothing in common with the American "Right" is lying to themselves
26/07/2011 08:49:29 PM
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glad you could come along, someone has to represent the ignorant kool-aid drinkers
26/07/2011 10:29:52 PM
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I don't mind them lying to themselves,but promoting the lie incites violent persecution complexes
26/07/2011 11:40:48 PM
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A suggestion
27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM
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Maybe.
27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM
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But there's a problem in all that
27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM
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In that response, "they" etc. specifically means the talking heads and their defenders.
27/07/2011 02:44:25 PM
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Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand
27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM
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I blame nested threads.
27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM
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Personally, I blame your need to have the final post in every conversation
27/07/2011 10:27:30 PM
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