So it's someone you could relate to for once. Btw, I'm shocked how the right wing isn't condemning these shootings!
Even before I saw the article on Fox and our former UN Ambassador attempting to defend not just the right but right wing EXTREMISTS by disavowing Breivik as a member of either, I'd already noted this in passing:
The rapid swing in the press away from blaming Islamists and towards “right-wing extremists” reflects the recent announcements of further investigations from a variety of governmental and UN authorities into these groups. Criticism has emerged in Europe where, at least according to a New York Times article, “...some experts say a climate of hatred in the political discourse has encouraged violent individuals.” Though this preposterous belief lost traction in the U.S. after Jared Loughner’s attempt to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords, it may find support in Europe.
In America, at least, the right isn't just washing their hands of far right terrorism, they're washing their hands of it AGAIN. Like I say, I'm just waiting for them to start screaming, "BLOOD LIBEL111" and pretending THEY (not the innocent murdered children) are the REAL victims here, like Palin did after several papers suggested her violent rhetoric and imagery "targeting" Giffords among others may have contributed to that shooting. Of course, there the right had an edge: Jared Loughner has been scrupulously tight lipped about what motives, if any, he had; Anders Breivik has been positively chatty about his far right motives. Nonetheless, a nominally non-partisan article in a police publication still refers to the idea that intolerant and hateful political rhetoric contributed in any way to this attack or threatens any additional ones as "preposterous". Nice to know the authorities are checking out all credible threats to public safety, eh?
What really concerns me is the extent to which supposedly mainstream conservatives are embracing the notion that Breivik was "just" a psychopath with no affiliation, when they don't go all the way 'round the bend and assert he was far-LEFT, in defiance of virtually every available fact (he DID crib from the Unabomber, who was pretty much a far left terrorist, but that's the ONLY thing that MIGHT suggest anything but a far right affiliation in Breivik). They're actively seeking to distant him from conservatism, often from EXTREME conservatism in particular (as in the case of former Ambassador Bolton) even when they don't try to associate him with liberalism. That gives some weight to his claims that he will only be the first of many; apparently there really are a lot of far right extremists out there whose biggest concern here is to avoid culpability rather than further violence. Put it this way: If I didn't already, I'd understand quite well why Bolton fought so hard to keep the US out of the ICC (despite the fact it was our freaking idea; it's the League of Nations all over again, really).
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
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LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
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This message last edited by Joel on 26/07/2011 at 08:20:24 AM
This message last edited by Joel on 26/07/2011 at 08:20:24 AM
- Edit 1 by Joel on 26/07/2011 at 08:20:24 AM
Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist).
26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM
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Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM*
26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM
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How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM*
26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM
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That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist.
26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM
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Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist
26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM
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I'm not.
26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM
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funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left
26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM
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No one called him "American right"
26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM
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so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM*
26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM
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They don't have to claim him.
26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM
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Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man
26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM
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I neither care nor am responsible for US media
26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM
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this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed?
26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM
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Yes but I didn't reply to the main article, but to Trzaska being ignorant
26/07/2011 04:36:52 PM
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Just to be clear
26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM
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just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist
26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM
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People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views.
26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM
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sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality
26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM
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I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement,
26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM
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See, the thing with an extremist, is that he doesn't have all that much in common with
26/07/2011 03:59:05 PM
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A right OR left wing extremist is just that; that's why your mouthpieces are so defensive.
26/07/2011 10:40:46 PM
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I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy
26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM
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He murders kids because they're liberal, you spit on their graves: You both belong in an asylum.
26/07/2011 07:54:08 AM
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Aaaaaaand you are back on my ignore list. Thanks for confirming my original instincts were right. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:18:25 AM
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He says (through his lawyer) ...
26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM
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funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied
26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM
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I have no idea what you're talking about.
26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM
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Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist
26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM
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Now I see what you mean.
26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM
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I would argue that his actions were tied to his beliefs on the specific issue of immigration
26/07/2011 06:11:23 PM
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And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste
26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM
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I'm seriously wondering if attacking the victims here will be the tipping point for US fascists.
26/07/2011 10:30:33 AM
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why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid?
26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM
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+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona.....
26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM
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Really? (+edit)
26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM
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no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right
26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM
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...
26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM
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if the term doesn't fit in the US then it makes no sense for US media to use the term here
26/07/2011 08:14:40 PM
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This was my point.
26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM
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so are you pulling crap out of thin air now?
26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM
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You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back.
26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM
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I may be frustrated but I think it is justified
27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM
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I'm sorry if my comment was stupid.
27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM
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I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you
27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM
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It's the liberals fault they were murdered; I get that that's the American far right argument.
26/07/2011 11:09:25 PM
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BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right?
26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM
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Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said?
27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM
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He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism.
27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM
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Wow. Let's just make this about us, why don't we?
26/07/2011 04:19:06 PM
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oh please the left is one trying to make about the right
26/07/2011 04:36:39 PM
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I'm referring to all Americans (both sides) who are currently fighting this out.
26/07/2011 04:44:45 PM
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I agree 100% that this issue shouldn't be used in American politics
26/07/2011 06:33:48 PM
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To Hell with them; even the normally indulgent American public will put them in a rubber room soon.
26/07/2011 11:36:13 PM
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You people all need to get a grip
26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM
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+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM*
26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM
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No, you do not agree with what Wibble said. Your +1 makes zero sense. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:11:31 PM
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That's what I'm trying to do.
26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM
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You are too close to this just now.
26/07/2011 10:17:22 PM
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Probably,but that it happened in perhaps the safest most liberal place on Earth makes it inescapable
27/07/2011 12:26:45 AM
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Joel you are so full of shit
26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM
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Read Joel's post title again, will you?
26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM
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Oh please, Legolas
26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM
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Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM*
26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM
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Bullshit
27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM
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For the record, I've always supported guns for self defense (and hunting, and liberty from tyranny).
27/07/2011 10:52:02 AM
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While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to
27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM
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I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions.
27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM
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No trolling? And you include the first reply in that?
27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM
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so is the troll the person who makes the point or is the people who refuse to acknowledge it
27/07/2011 02:41:31 PM
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Do you think trz was right to call him an ultra left wing anarchist?
27/07/2011 04:15:50 PM
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I assumed he was referring to me when talked about picking fights with people
27/07/2011 05:53:43 PM
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yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM*
27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM
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extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them
27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM
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One of us is.
27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM
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Anyone saying Brevik has nothing in common with the American "Right" is lying to themselves
26/07/2011 08:49:29 PM
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glad you could come along, someone has to represent the ignorant kool-aid drinkers
26/07/2011 10:29:52 PM
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I don't mind them lying to themselves,but promoting the lie incites violent persecution complexes
26/07/2011 11:40:48 PM
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A suggestion
27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM
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Maybe.
27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM
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But there's a problem in all that
27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM
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In that response, "they" etc. specifically means the talking heads and their defenders.
27/07/2011 02:44:25 PM
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Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand
27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM
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I blame nested threads.
27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM
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Personally, I blame your need to have the final post in every conversation
27/07/2011 10:27:30 PM
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