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I'm not. Joel Send a noteboard - 26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM
So it's someone you could relate to for once. Btw, I'm shocked how the right wing isn't condemning these shootings!

Even before I saw the article on Fox and our former UN Ambassador attempting to defend not just the right but right wing EXTREMISTS by disavowing Breivik as a member of either, I'd already noted this in passing:
The rapid swing in the press away from blaming Islamists and towards “right-wing extremists” reflects the recent announcements of further investigations from a variety of governmental and UN authorities into these groups. Criticism has emerged in Europe where, at least according to a New York Times article, “...some experts say a climate of hatred in the political discourse has encouraged violent individuals.” Though this preposterous belief lost traction in the U.S. after Jared Loughner’s attempt to assassinate Representative Gabrielle Giffords, it may find support in Europe.

In America, at least, the right isn't just washing their hands of far right terrorism, they're washing their hands of it AGAIN. Like I say, I'm just waiting for them to start screaming, "BLOOD LIBEL111" and pretending THEY (not the innocent murdered children) are the REAL victims here, like Palin did after several papers suggested her violent rhetoric and imagery "targeting" Giffords among others may have contributed to that shooting. Of course, there the right had an edge: Jared Loughner has been scrupulously tight lipped about what motives, if any, he had; Anders Breivik has been positively chatty about his far right motives. Nonetheless, a nominally non-partisan article in a police publication still refers to the idea that intolerant and hateful political rhetoric contributed in any way to this attack or threatens any additional ones as "preposterous". Nice to know the authorities are checking out all credible threats to public safety, eh?

What really concerns me is the extent to which supposedly mainstream conservatives are embracing the notion that Breivik was "just" a psychopath with no affiliation, when they don't go all the way 'round the bend and assert he was far-LEFT, in defiance of virtually every available fact (he DID crib from the Unabomber, who was pretty much a far left terrorist, but that's the ONLY thing that MIGHT suggest anything but a far right affiliation in Breivik). They're actively seeking to distant him from conservatism, often from EXTREME conservatism in particular (as in the case of former Ambassador Bolton) even when they don't try to associate him with liberalism. That gives some weight to his claims that he will only be the first of many; apparently there really are a lot of far right extremists out there whose biggest concern here is to avoid culpability rather than further violence. Put it this way: If I didn't already, I'd understand quite well why Bolton fought so hard to keep the US out of the ICC (despite the fact it was our freaking idea; it's the League of Nations all over again, really).
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This message last edited by Joel on 26/07/2011 at 08:20:24 AM
  • Edit 1 by Joel on 26/07/2011 at 08:20:24 AM
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Fox Condemns (Calling) Norways Right Wing Terrorist (a Right Wing Terrorist). - 26/07/2011 02:31:25 AM 1334 Views
Norway shooter = ultra left-wing anarchist *NM* - 26/07/2011 04:11:58 AM 384 Views
How exactly is anarchism ultra left-wing? *NM* - 26/07/2011 05:48:15 AM 380 Views
That part actually makes sense; both are anti-authoritarian, anti-establishment and anti-statist. - 26/07/2011 08:03:19 AM 491 Views
Well said - 26/07/2011 12:11:45 PM 403 Views
Thanks. - 26/07/2011 11:46:42 PM 431 Views
Re: Norway shooter = Christian fundamentalist - 26/07/2011 05:58:54 AM 441 Views
I'm not. - 26/07/2011 08:14:33 AM 608 Views
funny how we always keep hearing that Europe left isn't Ameircan left - 26/07/2011 01:18:57 PM 492 Views
No one called him "American right" - 26/07/2011 01:59:07 PM 433 Views
so why is the left complaining that the American right won't claim him? *NM* - 26/07/2011 02:06:44 PM 463 Views
They don't have to claim him. - 26/07/2011 02:08:37 PM 427 Views
Or the left could not use the massacre for political advantage and just call him mad man - 26/07/2011 03:29:20 PM 442 Views
I neither care nor am responsible for US media - 26/07/2011 03:57:08 PM 424 Views
this is an article about the US media or hadn't you noticed? - 26/07/2011 04:27:58 PM 402 Views
Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:42:04 PM 506 Views
Re: Just to be clear - 26/07/2011 04:46:47 PM 370 Views
just be clear I am not defending the argument that he a leftist - 26/07/2011 05:30:27 PM 420 Views
People seem to forget that there are several different kinds of Left & Right wing views. - 26/07/2011 06:23:37 PM 518 Views
sorry that sounds all nice and reasonable but it doesn't really represent reality - 26/07/2011 06:41:10 PM 523 Views
I get that it is an American TV station making this nonsensical statement, - 26/07/2011 06:50:36 PM 456 Views
once again I was referring to the use of the term in the US - 26/07/2011 08:30:48 PM 466 Views
Precisely. - 27/07/2011 12:00:33 AM 398 Views
I am not surprised that the left has wasted no time in local for poltical gain from tragedy - 26/07/2011 01:13:13 PM 409 Views
Yeah, how dare we horn in on your schtick. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:43 PM 370 Views
*NM* - 26/07/2011 08:51:23 PM 318 Views
- 26/07/2011 10:16:12 PM 403 Views
Ignorance is bliss? - 26/07/2011 11:08:53 AM 413 Views
Sometimes - 26/07/2011 08:01:27 PM 450 Views
He says (through his lawyer) ... - 26/07/2011 01:54:51 PM 473 Views
funny how when it is right wing wacko we always see that title applied - 26/07/2011 02:09:10 PM 412 Views
I have no idea what you're talking about. - 26/07/2011 03:55:13 PM 432 Views
Ted Kaczynski was a far left extremist - 26/07/2011 04:24:21 PM 419 Views
Now I see what you mean. - 26/07/2011 04:43:49 PM 410 Views
And Glenn Beck shows his usual good taste - 26/07/2011 09:11:34 AM 460 Views
I listened to that clip last night - 26/07/2011 10:26:24 AM 478 Views
Unbefuckinglievable *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:12:03 AM 349 Views
Oh, and he was also showing what a huge hypocrite he is - 26/07/2011 12:12:20 PM 489 Views
I don't want to keep saying "wow," but what else? - 26/07/2011 04:26:32 PM 413 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 01:49:02 AM 401 Views
why does Fox NEws makes liberals so stupid? - 26/07/2011 01:04:50 PM 477 Views
+1 - the mainstream media loves to jump to conclusions like in Arizona..... - 26/07/2011 01:13:12 PM 405 Views
Really? (+edit) - 26/07/2011 04:53:53 PM 368 Views
no the argument started when the media couldn't stop trying to hang him around the neck of the right - 26/07/2011 06:46:59 PM 539 Views
... - 26/07/2011 06:52:45 PM 543 Views
This was my point. - 26/07/2011 08:21:17 PM 382 Views
so are you pulling crap out of thin air now? - 26/07/2011 08:36:08 PM 486 Views
You need to take a few deep breaths and take a step back. - 26/07/2011 11:09:47 PM 334 Views
I may be frustrated but I think it is justified - 27/07/2011 12:11:09 AM 377 Views
I'm sorry if my comment was stupid. - 27/07/2011 04:38:47 PM 415 Views
I was just taken back a bit because I read it right after complementing you - 27/07/2011 06:05:38 PM 409 Views
Who is "traszka"? *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:33:49 PM 384 Views
'm going to try not to be offensive here, but the way I see it - 26/07/2011 04:35:54 PM 447 Views
I don't like Fox's opinion news shows and I don't watch them - 26/07/2011 06:21:01 PM 417 Views
Gah wrong place *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:32:07 PM 351 Views
BTW, you understand the American right are the only people on the PLANET who dispute he's far right? - 26/07/2011 11:21:59 PM 376 Views
Joel did you actually read what the Ambassador said? - 27/07/2011 12:37:39 AM 456 Views
He called it "speculation" that Breivik was part of right-wing extremism. - 27/07/2011 01:03:11 AM 456 Views
Joel you truly are unhinged so I am done *NM* - 27/07/2011 01:11:43 AM 400 Views
Fair enough. - 27/07/2011 01:17:43 AM 410 Views
Pretty funny - 26/07/2011 01:47:19 PM 473 Views
The worst shooting massacre in history is not "pretty funny". - 26/07/2011 11:33:59 PM 367 Views
You people all need to get a grip - 26/07/2011 08:33:01 PM 439 Views
+1 - I have no idea why Joel started this thread.....he is obsessed with labels. *NM* - 26/07/2011 08:39:29 PM 423 Views
Try not replying next time, then. *NM* - 26/07/2011 10:10:27 PM 402 Views
That's what I'm trying to do. - 26/07/2011 10:05:29 PM 454 Views
Joel you are so full of shit - 26/07/2011 10:39:03 PM 381 Views
Read Joel's post title again, will you? - 26/07/2011 11:21:51 PM 503 Views
Oh please, Legolas - 26/07/2011 11:44:26 PM 449 Views
Quite. And I have every right to point out they're being insensitive jerks. *NM* - 26/07/2011 11:53:28 PM 449 Views
Bullshit - 27/07/2011 04:20:04 AM 451 Views
While I have no real interest in getting involved in the troll fest this post has turned in to - 27/07/2011 11:23:46 AM 421 Views
*NM* - 27/07/2011 11:50:02 AM 400 Views
I don't see any troll posts. Just discussions. - 27/07/2011 02:18:06 PM 450 Views
No trolling? And you include the first reply in that? - 27/07/2011 02:28:51 PM 476 Views
I don't know why Traska thinks that - 27/07/2011 07:37:50 PM 509 Views
yes Joel did an outstanding job of proving I wasn't being paranoid *NM* - 27/07/2011 02:35:05 PM 361 Views
I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 04:00:27 PM 459 Views
Re: I do agree that Joel is too close and is getting too riled - 27/07/2011 08:09:31 PM 509 Views
extremely offensive...makes them fearful... gives some people... another excuse to try&silence them - 27/07/2011 04:14:37 PM 498 Views
Well - 27/07/2011 04:27:25 PM 404 Views
Joel's title and Joel's post really don't have much in common - 26/07/2011 11:52:36 PM 416 Views
Not just some guest on Fox News, also Bushs UN Ambassador. - 27/07/2011 12:32:40 AM 383 Views
One of us is. - 27/07/2011 12:22:44 AM 437 Views
maybe Legolas is right and you are to close to this *NM* - 27/07/2011 12:39:29 AM 365 Views
Wibble, but maybe. - 27/07/2011 01:15:31 AM 487 Views
not really have you seen the main board? not much action. - 26/07/2011 10:40:21 PM 389 Views
A suggestion - 27/07/2011 03:30:14 AM 400 Views
Maybe. - 27/07/2011 04:26:44 AM 521 Views
But there's a problem in all that - 27/07/2011 12:45:24 PM 588 Views
O'Reilly Shreds Media for Calling Norway Terrorist 'Christian' - 27/07/2011 05:14:30 AM 544 Views
Bad Joel, you let this thread go out of hand - 27/07/2011 09:29:19 PM 415 Views
I blame nested threads. - 27/07/2011 09:39:04 PM 505 Views