a few things came to mind.
First off...aren't you one of those who want to *force* me to buy health insurance? How is that different from a motorcycle helmet law?
First off...aren't you one of those who want to *force* me to buy health insurance? How is that different from a motorcycle helmet law?
Actually, no, I'm not one of the ones who want to force you to buy health insurance; I oppose federally mandated private health insurance--I just can't see any way it violates the Constitution. I'm still royally pissed at Obama for telling us during the primary that what made his health care plan different from Hillarys was that hers had a federal mandate and his didn't and then signing one into law once elected, but that doesn't mean he broke the law (it just means he broke a campaign pledge, but if I had a nickel for every time he's done that I'd pay off the national debt). I DO think healthcare is a universal necessity, that providing it "promotes the general welfare" as the Preamble states is the federal governments job and that a universal single payer option is a more cost effective approach than having individuals buy it (whether or not they can afford it) from various for profit private insurers with no responsibility for actual CARE. Thus federally mandated participation in a PUBLIC healthcare program strikes me as a positive and natural thing that would save millions of man hours lost to illness and injury (not to mention millions of lives), and no more an infringement on our rights than FICA or income taxes. However, a federal law requiring individuals directly purchase it from private companies unaccountable to them is counterproductive and unethical despite being legal, particularly when the very law creating that requirement does nothing to limit the skyrocketing cost of healthcare (even though that was the very motive for the bill). I've consistently opposed the healthcare bill from the moment the public option died; it's a trillion dollar windfall to private insurers largely responsible for the problem, who were just guaranteed 40 million new customers complete with a government subsidy we can't afford, giving insurers every incentive to continue jacking up prices and make the problem even worse.
Short form of the above: No, I've always opposed government forcing anyone to buy private insurance; I just don't think it illegal.
Secondly...since when do we have a total "right" over our own bodies? Prostitution is illegal in most areas. Illicit drug use is illegal in all areas. You cannot sell one of your organs....you can't even sell your own blood. Abortion isn't about "her own body"...cause if you really want to get technical, none of her body is being removed. None of her DNA is in the tissue. Abortion is about who's rights are more important...the womans or the babies. Is it her convience or the babies right to live? That's the debate.
Two issues here:
1) No, we don't have total right over our own bodies, but we should until/unless that right affects someone elses body. I'd certainly be a lot happier if marijuana were legal, though I don't feel quite the same about physically addictive drugs simply because addicts DON'T control their own bodies: The drugs do. Prostitution and organ marketing are disgusting and immoral; that doesn't make them illegal, and I don't think they should be, because what someone chooses to do with their own body is their business.
2) Abortion is most certainly NOT about whether a womans rights are more important than a babys; Justice Blackmun made that VERY clear in his infamous opinion for the majority on Roe:
We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer.
You and I agree on the answer, but that only means we're certain, not necessarily right. If the issue of when or even whether "a fetus" is "a baby" had been definitively settled, abortion at any time for any reason except to save the mothers life would be illegal virtually everywhere, but since the former is not true neither is the latter. It's a judgement call society therefore largely leaves to the individuals involved (though the various restrictions on late term abortions are highly suggestive of a tacit social consensus that a baby is present no later than the start of the third trimester). The debate is most definitely NOT about a womans "convenience" (a rather meager term for things like raising her rapist fathers child, permanent injury including sterility or near certain DEATH) versus the childs life, and no matter how many times people try to frame it that way it won't be.
You're going on and on about majorities and minorities, but what I see more from your post is a spirit of rebellion. It has nothing to do with the fact that many or few people see a particular point of view, but more from the fact that you don't like to be told what to do.
~Jeordam
~Jeordam
The individuals right to live according to their conscience and principles so long as they don't infringe on that right in others is not "rebellion", but its denial is tyranny. No one likes to be told what to do, and our entire system of government rests on the foundational belief that no one SHOULD be told what to do by anyone not involved. The nature of the particular action doesn't, or shouldn't, matter. Society can and should intervene when one member violates the anothers rights, otherwise any members could and would violate the rights of all others at will, and the state recognizes a duty to advocate on behalf of those unable to assert their own rights lest they be defenseless. But, by and large, if it's none of your business you're not entitled to any input. Even people who attempt suicide are only restrained by the state on the grounds and to the extent that the attempt demonstrates they lack the capacity to make rational decisions for themselves.
On a deeper level, even when it's legal to deny people freedom to do stupid, immoral or even self destructive things to themselves, that in itself is unethical and immoral. That's part of why even after we were called we CHOSE our Savior rather than being dragged to Him kicking and screaming. Another reason is that dragging people kicking and screaming doesn't, CAN'T, work. Think about it objectively for a moment: The ONLY being in existence with both the right AND POWER to force people to not only act but THINK as He dictates refuses to do it: How presumptuous is it for you or I, with neither power nor right, to do so in His stead? I believe Jeffersons line was "resistance to tyrants is obedience to God".
Short form of the above: See below for the Pithy Pet Phrase that's #1 for a reason.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 06/07/2011 at 10:44:54 PM
You can't make this stuff up: Helmet law protester dies in crash
05/07/2011 08:47:14 PM
- 872 Views
Kinda undermines his protest *NM*
05/07/2011 09:01:50 PM
- 255 Views
How so? He wasn't demanding the right to survive crashes when only a helmet makes that possible.
05/07/2011 11:06:44 PM
- 542 Views
New York feels that people should have to wear helmets for their own safety
05/07/2011 11:20:36 PM
- 516 Views
He felt his own safety was his own concern.
06/07/2011 12:07:05 AM
- 456 Views
Who do you think would have ended up paying for his care for the rest of his life if the accident
06/07/2011 01:08:49 AM
- 600 Views
The same people who pay for everyone else whose actions render them vegetables.
06/07/2011 01:50:20 AM
- 711 Views
Maybe a more effective argument you could use against me would be pointing out
06/07/2011 02:33:21 AM
- 505 Views
what a fricking idiot
05/07/2011 10:02:17 PM
- 683 Views
That's your opinion to which you're entitled.
05/07/2011 11:19:36 PM
- 925 Views
Anarchy, baby! *NM*
06/07/2011 12:58:23 AM
- 463 Views
Sorry, as an advocate of civil rights (which especially includes minorities) I oppose anarchy.
06/07/2011 01:18:19 AM
- 583 Views
The public's nose is on the line here too.
06/07/2011 01:47:08 AM
- 642 Views
So my increased ease of hearing/seeing vehicles and other hazards isn't worth $1200.
06/07/2011 02:25:53 AM
- 647 Views
I understand the pov, I had a BF who felt that same way. It's still much like childish defiance.
06/07/2011 01:26:15 AM
- 746 Views
In part it's a matter of principle, but if we really want to analyze it there's some deeper validity
06/07/2011 02:13:05 AM
- 611 Views
you keep spreading falsehoods, stop it please
06/07/2011 02:49:01 AM
- 784 Views
Sounds like your real argument is with the other bikers; I'm just reiterating their arguments.
06/07/2011 03:38:39 AM
- 711 Views
Uh Joel...
06/07/2011 03:38:24 AM
- 541 Views
Agreed, having others in the car does make a difference.
06/07/2011 03:47:53 AM
- 623 Views
Hence why your "I wouldn't wear a seatbelt in the back seat" comment didn't make a lot of sense
06/07/2011 07:38:50 PM
- 587 Views
Depends on whether the driver, rather than the law, is the one insisting.
06/07/2011 08:06:24 PM
- 456 Views
You'd place your own comfort over other people's safety?
06/07/2011 11:37:00 PM
- 493 Views
It's more a comfort issue than anything else; it's not solely one.
06/07/2011 11:56:28 PM
- 971 Views
Hold the phone here...
06/07/2011 07:49:10 PM
- 871 Views
+1 *NM*
06/07/2011 08:42:14 PM
- 322 Views
You agree with him that the abortion debate is about a mothers convenience versus the babys life?
06/07/2011 10:48:52 PM
- 611 Views
im not bringing abortion into this, its a separate issue *NM*
06/07/2011 10:56:17 PM
- 307 Views
It's really not.
07/07/2011 12:20:10 AM
- 643 Views
i'm really not
07/07/2011 03:34:23 PM
- 714 Views
Fine as far as it goes, but public/private only matters to the extent others are affected.
09/07/2011 11:15:33 AM
- 678 Views
Holding the phone here might be good, yes....
06/07/2011 10:33:46 PM
- 699 Views
See...that's the difference between you and me
06/07/2011 10:56:53 PM
- 802 Views
Apparently so; "completely anarchy as long as its regulated to one's body" sounds nonsensical to me.
06/07/2011 11:44:50 PM
- 804 Views
I'm with Joel. I always buckle up/helmet up, but I think such laws are asinine
06/07/2011 02:30:04 AM
- 467 Views
why not just ban motorcycles all together, they are much more dangerous than cars
06/07/2011 05:39:51 PM
- 481 Views
Helmets help save lives. 'Onest.
07/07/2011 04:40:42 PM
- 645 Views
So do not smoking, eating right and regular exercise, but we haven't made them mandatory.
09/07/2011 11:04:58 AM
- 653 Views