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Yes it does ßelals Girl Send a noteboard - 06/07/2011 07:32:54 PM
No one has to ride with someone who won't buckle up. They choose to take the risk as much as the person who refuses to buckle up themselves.

(I am, of course, refering to adults here, not children or anyone else who is at the adults' mercy)

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You can't make this stuff up: Helmet law protester dies in crash Dark Knight - 05/07/2011 08:47:14 PM 872 Views
Kinda undermines his protest *NM* snoopcester - 05/07/2011 09:01:50 PM 255 Views
Just a tad bit *NM* Dark Knight - 05/07/2011 09:06:24 PM 232 Views
How so? He wasn't demanding the right to survive crashes when only a helmet makes that possible. Joel - 05/07/2011 11:06:44 PM 542 Views
New York feels that people should have to wear helmets for their own safety snoopcester - 05/07/2011 11:20:36 PM 515 Views
He felt his own safety was his own concern. Joel - 06/07/2011 12:07:05 AM 456 Views
Who do you think would have ended up paying for his care for the rest of his life if the accident Tashmere - 06/07/2011 01:08:49 AM 600 Views
The same people who pay for everyone else whose actions render them vegetables. Joel - 06/07/2011 01:50:20 AM 711 Views
Maybe a more effective argument you could use against me would be pointing out Tashmere - 06/07/2011 02:33:21 AM 505 Views
Yeah, that is a better example. Joel - 06/07/2011 03:03:01 AM 485 Views
Oops, ignore! *NM* eucatastrophe - 06/07/2011 11:44:10 PM 307 Views
Now, who said irony wasn't funny? *NM* Great Lord of Chaos - 05/07/2011 09:22:58 PM 363 Views
what a fricking idiot Yunalesca - 05/07/2011 10:02:17 PM 683 Views
That's your opinion to which you're entitled. Joel - 05/07/2011 11:19:36 PM 924 Views
Anarchy, baby! *NM* Dark Knight - 06/07/2011 12:58:23 AM 463 Views
Sorry, as an advocate of civil rights (which especially includes minorities) I oppose anarchy. Joel - 06/07/2011 01:18:19 AM 583 Views
The public's nose is on the line here too. Tashmere - 06/07/2011 01:47:08 AM 641 Views
So my increased ease of hearing/seeing vehicles and other hazards isn't worth $1200. Joel - 06/07/2011 02:25:53 AM 647 Views
I understand the pov, I had a BF who felt that same way. It's still much like childish defiance. Avendesora - 06/07/2011 01:26:15 AM 745 Views
In part it's a matter of principle, but if we really want to analyze it there's some deeper validity Joel - 06/07/2011 02:13:05 AM 611 Views
you keep spreading falsehoods, stop it please moondog - 06/07/2011 02:49:01 AM 784 Views
Sounds like your real argument is with the other bikers; I'm just reiterating their arguments. Joel - 06/07/2011 03:38:39 AM 711 Views
It's not "much like" childish defiance. It IS. *NM* eucatastrophe - 06/07/2011 11:45:05 PM 415 Views
Uh Joel... ßelals Girl - 06/07/2011 03:38:24 AM 541 Views
Agreed, having others in the car does make a difference. Joel - 06/07/2011 03:47:53 AM 623 Views
Hence why your "I wouldn't wear a seatbelt in the back seat" comment didn't make a lot of sense ßelals Girl - 06/07/2011 07:38:50 PM 587 Views
Depends on whether the driver, rather than the law, is the one insisting. Joel - 06/07/2011 08:06:24 PM 456 Views
You'd place your own comfort over other people's safety? ßelals Girl - 06/07/2011 11:37:00 PM 493 Views
It's more a comfort issue than anything else; it's not solely one. Joel - 06/07/2011 11:56:28 PM 971 Views
Sorry, but that doesn't make sense ironclad - 06/07/2011 07:02:33 PM 743 Views
Yes it does ßelals Girl - 06/07/2011 07:32:54 PM 485 Views
how many people are really seriously injured that way? random thoughts - 06/07/2011 07:15:16 PM 704 Views
Did you actually read my post? ßelals Girl - 06/07/2011 07:36:13 PM 605 Views
my ex had 3 cracked ribs from an accident like that moondog - 07/07/2011 02:46:07 AM 647 Views
Re: That's your opinion to which you're entitled. Yunalesca - 06/07/2011 05:18:12 PM 707 Views
Re: That's your opinion to which you're entitled. Joel - 06/07/2011 06:13:44 PM 773 Views
Hold the phone here... Jeordam - 06/07/2011 07:49:10 PM 871 Views
+1 *NM* Yunalesca - 06/07/2011 08:42:14 PM 322 Views
You agree with him that the abortion debate is about a mothers convenience versus the babys life? Joel - 06/07/2011 10:48:52 PM 611 Views
im not bringing abortion into this, its a separate issue *NM* Yunalesca - 06/07/2011 10:56:17 PM 307 Views
It's really not. Joel - 07/07/2011 12:20:10 AM 643 Views
i'm really not Yunalesca - 07/07/2011 03:34:23 PM 714 Views
Fine as far as it goes, but public/private only matters to the extent others are affected. Joel - 09/07/2011 11:15:33 AM 678 Views
What else could the debate be about? Jeordam - 06/07/2011 10:58:51 PM 576 Views
"The babys life", not just "life". Joel - 07/07/2011 12:18:02 AM 903 Views
Holding the phone here might be good, yes.... Joel - 06/07/2011 10:33:46 PM 698 Views
See...that's the difference between you and me Jeordam - 06/07/2011 10:56:53 PM 802 Views
Apparently so; "completely anarchy as long as its regulated to one's body" sounds nonsensical to me. Joel - 06/07/2011 11:44:50 PM 804 Views
I think I could make that up. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 05/07/2011 11:41:00 PM 256 Views
Smartass *NM* Dark Knight - 06/07/2011 12:57:22 AM 261 Views
I'm with Joel. I always buckle up/helmet up, but I think such laws are asinine beetnemesis - 06/07/2011 02:30:04 AM 467 Views
why not just ban motorcycles all together, they are much more dangerous than cars random thoughts - 06/07/2011 05:39:51 PM 481 Views
Helmets help save lives. 'Onest. Two Wongs - 07/07/2011 04:40:42 PM 645 Views
So do not smoking, eating right and regular exercise, but we haven't made them mandatory. Joel - 09/07/2011 11:04:58 AM 652 Views
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