Perhaps, you seem to be claiming not do that yourself though
Isaac Send a noteboard - 30/06/2011 01:40:57 PM
No, nobody's rights should be up to anyone else, unfortunately they have to be, for those of us who support democracy, the reason we entrust it to a majority is we distrust them less than the minority or the individual. We also enshrine personal rights whenever possible inside a document that requires prolonged super-majorities to change, so some kneejerk reaction from the populace doesn't either eradicate them or invent new ones.
Often, gay rights are already implied by a consistent reading of such documents, as many judges have remarked over the past few years. Judge Vaughn Walker, who issued the decision overturning Proposition 8 in California, noted that limiting marriage to one man, one woman constitutes gender discrimination as well as sexual orientation discrimination, and beyond that, it is rooted in conventional ideas about gender roles which we have supposedly progressed beyond as a society.
I would say that there are very few cases of gay rights being implied in the constitution or various fed, state, or local laws, and that generally when one goes hunting for something they want to find they will tend to find it, particularly in law.
Beg Pardon, you're the one who used the word 'forcing' and did it in regard to the majority. I am no more fond of the tyranny of the majority than you, but I'm also not fond of the tyranny of the minority either. And history is generally full of a lot more apparently wise and reasonable people who engaged in tyranny because they thought they knew what was best for the lowly masses than it was off frothing megalomaniac monsters who ruled on whim and spouted of cliche villain line, history just tends to rename the former as the latter when the next self-righteous bastard cuts their head off and declares themselves wise and benevolent, taken as a whole I prefer to take a whole bunch of ordinary people, sit them down and let both sides explain their POV, and then ask them what to do, it tends to work better, frankly I trust them to act morally more than I do politicians.
Forcing through the system, not down people's throats. (I really don't know how the rest of this relates even tangentially to the issue at hand.)
Insofar as I said I felt it would be best to put such matters to a popular vote, and not through the system, I'm curious why you said those comments in the first place. How my comment relates, is that when I say I think something is best left up to the majority, and people disagree, I generally think it a good idea to toss out a few reminders of why so many support democracy even though they are entirely aware it means there vote counts for no more than the guy next door who really needs a tag on the cord warning him not to make toast in the bathtub.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
- Albert Einstein
King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
New York Senate approves same-sex marriage
25/06/2011 03:47:43 AM
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I'm actually not opposed to this.
25/06/2011 03:48:32 PM
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I'm not sure why there was even any need for such explicit protection.
25/06/2011 04:04:47 PM
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so in your only Catholics are really married?
26/06/2011 12:04:07 AM
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Church Doctrine.
26/06/2011 12:57:39 AM
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That's patently wrong in that Orthodox weddings are explicitly recognized by the Church.
26/06/2011 02:42:00 PM
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Yeah okay...
26/06/2011 05:16:05 PM
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They are outside of the authority of Rome, and have, on occasion, excommunicated Popes.
27/06/2011 05:03:31 PM
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Seems fine to me
25/06/2011 05:44:30 PM
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Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy.
25/06/2011 09:37:28 PM
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Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy.
26/06/2011 03:11:06 AM
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Good luck telling that to the deeply religious right.
26/06/2011 03:20:04 AM
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I am a deeply religious member of the right, and I tell them that all the time *NM*
26/06/2011 03:30:14 AM
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After a number of years of gay marriage
26/06/2011 06:57:07 AM
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That's more or less true of virtually everything, not a great example
26/06/2011 07:09:03 AM
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People shouldn't turn their own religion and/or opinion into law
28/06/2011 07:33:48 PM
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I don't recall mentioning religion beyond confirming that I was religious
28/06/2011 08:22:51 PM
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I admit I wasn't replying to you directly
29/06/2011 07:20:10 AM
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I think you should give this subject a bit more thought
29/06/2011 02:16:04 PM
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Believing things without strong supporting evidence is not rational.
30/06/2011 12:11:33 AM
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Requiring different degrees of proof for things isn't particularly rational
30/06/2011 01:14:44 PM
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I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything.
30/06/2011 07:43:51 PM
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Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything.
30/06/2011 08:59:00 PM
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Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything.
30/06/2011 09:47:30 PM
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No, I used the word irrational to mean that it's not rational.
30/06/2011 09:12:19 PM
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Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy.
26/06/2011 10:38:56 PM
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I think you should give your fellow citizens a bit more trust and respect
27/06/2011 05:41:52 PM
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My expectations are guided by psychology and history.
28/06/2011 07:08:06 PM
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That's good to know, most of us do that, though we usually just call it common sense and experience
28/06/2011 08:55:23 PM
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No, most people don't do that. Reasoning from cognitive biases and anecdotes is much more common.
30/06/2011 12:18:40 AM
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Perhaps, you seem to be claiming not do that yourself though
30/06/2011 01:40:57 PM
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Empire State Building was lit up in rainbow colors, looked cool *NM*
25/06/2011 08:21:03 PM
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I approved that years ago. They are way behind. Granted, I have no authority over anyone...
26/06/2011 12:22:33 AM
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The real issue is going to be when the Supreme Court rules on the full faith and credit clause.
26/06/2011 02:43:23 PM
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