Active Users:1105 Time:23/11/2024 12:08:34 AM
Believing things without strong supporting evidence is not rational. Dreaded Anomaly Send a noteboard - 30/06/2011 12:11:33 AM
Euclid's Axioms on Geometry are also 2000+ years old, so are Aesop's Fables, the only reason a book or work's age is relevant is that if something has managed to keep getting cited after centuries, it probably indicates it has some value and merit, and I'd appreciate if you'd not imply I'm irrational, that you can't understand 'how any rational person could believe in such things' strikes me as a problem you should be seeking to address, because a pretty good chunk of the people most would regard as champions of reason believe or believed in such things, and I'm not sure how the breakdown goes amongst scientists but I don't know many in my own field of physics who consider religion at paradox with science and reason, regardless of their own beliefs or lack thereof, and maybe it's field arrogance but while we claim no monopoly on the faculty of reason we're generally considered to have more than our fair share of it. Even when I was an atheist, and later an agnostic, I never considered those who weren't to be prone to being irrational or possessed of impaired reasoning abilities, if you think that's the case, I'd respectfully submit you should re-evaluate either your definition of 'rational' or your definition of 'religion', and barring that at the very least I'd appreciate if you'd have the courteousy not to lob insults at religion when I did not invoke it as part of my comments, but again only mentioned it when someone also threw a slur at it.


Religion and science are not "separate magisteria" or anything of the sort. The failure of many scientists to realize this is generally because of compartmentalization, i.e. the idea that the scientific method and other related principles only apply in certain domains. In fact, they apply to all truth claims. (See http://lesswrong.com/lw/i8/religions_claim_to_be_nondisprovable/ and http://lesswrong.com/lw/gv/outside_the_laboratory/ for more thorough explanations of this, for starters.)

Let's be quantitative about how scientists differ in belief from the general population. We are many, many times more likely to be atheists, non-religious, or express doubts about religion than the general population. In the US, one estimate is that 30% of scientist are atheists, vs. maybe 2% of the general population who are atheists. 50% of scientists are without religious affiliation, vs. 16% of the general population. Only 36% of scientists state an explicit belief in God. See http://www.opposingviews.com/i/growing-number-of-scientists-are-atheists for more statistics (and note that the data was gathered by someone attempting to argue the opposite point, that scientists generally are religious.)

The idea that religion deserves "courtesy" is nonsense. No belief deserves protection from criticism. Also, "irrational" is a word with a specific meaning, not just a general insult.

As a side note, the entire paragraph I quoted contains only 2 periods. That is a serious barrier to readability.
Reply to message
New York Senate approves same-sex marriage - 25/06/2011 03:47:43 AM 1157 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 07:40:52 AM 378 Views
Re: Federalism is so fucking slow. *NM* - 25/06/2011 02:47:11 PM 213 Views
I'm actually not opposed to this. - 25/06/2011 03:48:32 PM 546 Views
Makes sense to me. - 25/06/2011 04:00:07 PM 703 Views
I'm not sure why there was even any need for such explicit protection. - 25/06/2011 04:04:47 PM 511 Views
There are two reasons, depending on ones position on the issue. - 25/06/2011 06:04:27 PM 563 Views
Meh, you never know. - 26/06/2011 12:58:37 AM 654 Views
so in your only Catholics are really married? - 26/06/2011 12:04:07 AM 514 Views
Church Doctrine. - 26/06/2011 12:57:39 AM 640 Views
That is simply not true - 26/06/2011 08:20:59 AM 564 Views
Yes it is. - 26/06/2011 05:14:29 PM 592 Views
That's patently wrong in that Orthodox weddings are explicitly recognized by the Church. - 26/06/2011 02:42:00 PM 534 Views
Yeah okay... - 26/06/2011 05:16:05 PM 566 Views
Are you sure about this? - 30/06/2011 04:47:57 PM 423 Views
Dragonsoul is wrong - 01/07/2011 09:21:43 AM 569 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* - 25/06/2011 04:05:15 PM 211 Views
Seems fine to me - 25/06/2011 05:44:30 PM 501 Views
Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 25/06/2011 09:37:28 PM 637 Views
Direct democracy is the only true democracy. *NM* - 26/06/2011 01:01:26 AM 222 Views
Sometimes it is grand not being a True Scottsman *NM* - 26/06/2011 08:21:49 AM 209 Views
Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy. - 26/06/2011 03:11:06 AM 585 Views
Good luck telling that to the deeply religious right. - 26/06/2011 03:20:04 AM 489 Views
I am a deeply religious member of the right, and I tell them that all the time *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:30:14 AM 222 Views
Then you're a rare person. *NM* - 26/06/2011 03:36:11 AM 222 Views
After a number of years of gay marriage - 26/06/2011 06:57:07 AM 471 Views
That's more or less true of virtually everything, not a great example - 26/06/2011 07:09:03 AM 507 Views
People shouldn't turn their own religion and/or opinion into law - 28/06/2011 07:33:48 PM 502 Views
I don't recall mentioning religion beyond confirming that I was religious - 28/06/2011 08:22:51 PM 540 Views
I admit I wasn't replying to you directly - 29/06/2011 07:20:10 AM 496 Views
I think you should give this subject a bit more thought - 29/06/2011 02:16:04 PM 538 Views
I'll address the bulk of this later - 29/06/2011 07:58:48 PM 422 Views
Believing things without strong supporting evidence is not rational. - 30/06/2011 12:11:33 AM 603 Views
Requiring different degrees of proof for things isn't particularly rational - 30/06/2011 01:14:44 PM 673 Views
I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 07:43:51 PM 1047 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 08:59:00 PM 682 Views
Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything. - 30/06/2011 09:47:30 PM 946 Views
We're gonna have to pick this up another time - 01/07/2011 04:37:25 AM 512 Views
No, I used the word irrational to mean that it's not rational. - 30/06/2011 09:12:19 PM 526 Views
Fair Enough - 01/07/2011 04:32:44 AM 577 Views
Btw, in case you were wondering, I do like you - 01/07/2011 02:17:42 PM 576 Views
Empire State Building was lit up in rainbow colors, looked cool *NM* - 25/06/2011 08:21:03 PM 230 Views
Good. *NM* - 25/06/2011 11:41:30 PM 202 Views
So, fifth time is a charm? - 26/06/2011 06:38:26 AM 619 Views

Reply to Message