Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy.
Dreaded Anomaly Send a noteboard - 26/06/2011 10:38:56 PM
I find it a tad ironic that you're engaging in fear-mongering about fear-mongering, though there's a touch of truth to what you say. Nevertheless, on an issue like this, the ultimate 'goal' has to be to convince people that there's nothing wrong with gay marriage, so a ballot on the matter is, IMO, the only way to really legitimize it. Right now I know a lot of people who were fence-sitters or lukewarms supporters of gay marriage who strongly resent the acts of the judiciary on this matter, and resent being told that they are ignorant or bigoted, the legislature passing something will not offend to that degree, the law would be viewed as legitimate, but a general ballot is the clearest and cleanest way to show the will of the people and gay marriage is neither complex technically, lengthy in concept, or a matter of grave urgency, so it's one of the relatively few matters the public could vote on, in my opinion the course of wisdom is to go that route, by and large citizens accept 51% of other citizens as more valid and swaying then a judge or even 51% of elected reps, if the ultimate goal is to get people to accept gay marriage as valid, 51% of their fellowing citizens saying 'yes it is' is far more convincing then any action of the government.
It's not fear-mongering, because it's based on what actually happened instead of simply conjecture, unlike the claims of anti-gay marriage campaigns.
The support of 51% of voters is not going to be any more convincing than 51% of the legislature to those who oppose it. (See, e.g., Obama's presidency.) That's not how people reason about social norms. The only way to build up gay marriage as acceptable is to force it through, so that it becomes part of the fabric of society.
Also, civil rights should always be a matter of urgency.
New York Senate approves same-sex marriage
25/06/2011 03:47:43 AM
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I'm actually not opposed to this.
25/06/2011 03:48:32 PM
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I'm not sure why there was even any need for such explicit protection.
25/06/2011 04:04:47 PM
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so in your only Catholics are really married?
26/06/2011 12:04:07 AM
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Church Doctrine.
26/06/2011 12:57:39 AM
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That's patently wrong in that Orthodox weddings are explicitly recognized by the Church.
26/06/2011 02:42:00 PM
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Yeah okay...
26/06/2011 05:16:05 PM
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They are outside of the authority of Rome, and have, on occasion, excommunicated Popes.
27/06/2011 05:03:31 PM
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Seems fine to me
25/06/2011 05:44:30 PM
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Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy.
25/06/2011 09:37:28 PM
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Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy.
26/06/2011 03:11:06 AM
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Good luck telling that to the deeply religious right.
26/06/2011 03:20:04 AM
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I am a deeply religious member of the right, and I tell them that all the time *NM*
26/06/2011 03:30:14 AM
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After a number of years of gay marriage
26/06/2011 06:57:07 AM
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That's more or less true of virtually everything, not a great example
26/06/2011 07:09:03 AM
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People shouldn't turn their own religion and/or opinion into law
28/06/2011 07:33:48 PM
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I don't recall mentioning religion beyond confirming that I was religious
28/06/2011 08:22:51 PM
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I admit I wasn't replying to you directly
29/06/2011 07:20:10 AM
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I think you should give this subject a bit more thought
29/06/2011 02:16:04 PM
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Believing things without strong supporting evidence is not rational.
30/06/2011 12:11:33 AM
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Requiring different degrees of proof for things isn't particularly rational
30/06/2011 01:14:44 PM
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I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything.
30/06/2011 07:43:51 PM
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Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything.
30/06/2011 08:59:00 PM
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Re: I require the same standard of evidence to be confident in anything.
30/06/2011 09:47:30 PM
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No, I used the word irrational to mean that it's not rational.
30/06/2011 09:12:19 PM
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Re: Voting on civil rights constitutes tyranny of the majority, not legitimate democracy.
26/06/2011 10:38:56 PM
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I think you should give your fellow citizens a bit more trust and respect
27/06/2011 05:41:52 PM
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My expectations are guided by psychology and history.
28/06/2011 07:08:06 PM
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That's good to know, most of us do that, though we usually just call it common sense and experience
28/06/2011 08:55:23 PM
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No, most people don't do that. Reasoning from cognitive biases and anecdotes is much more common.
30/06/2011 12:18:40 AM
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Empire State Building was lit up in rainbow colors, looked cool *NM*
25/06/2011 08:21:03 PM
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I approved that years ago. They are way behind. Granted, I have no authority over anyone...
26/06/2011 12:22:33 AM
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The real issue is going to be when the Supreme Court rules on the full faith and credit clause.
26/06/2011 02:43:23 PM
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