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I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean" beetnemesis Send a noteboard - 11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM
In some religions. Not psychologically so, but literally. As in, if you touch this pig/blood/woman, you are actually, spiritually unclean. It's not a state of mind, it's spiritual cause and effect. Logic.*

Christianity, for the most part, doesn't have much of that (of course, that's not counting those creepy little reliquaries filled with the knucklebones of saints, but I digress).


Most of the time, Christianity is simply about belief, without any sort of magical accessories. So, a woman who was praying for her sick child on her knees in a closet would be no less likely to have her prayers answered than if she was doing it holding a diamond-studded crucifix, surrounded by scented oils. As long as the belief is there, you're good.



The issue I had with holy water is that, despite whatever justifications people come up with, it is basically treated as "magic water." If you touch it, you are blessed. If you use it in your baptism, that's better than regular water. It can be used to ward off attacks from demons (I'm not being facetious, the idea that holy water can ward off evil is definitely a part of the perception of holy water, even if it's not one that comes up often during a sermon).




But it's not ABOUT THAT. It is entirely psychological. It's placebo. It's feel-good.


And that would be fine, if that's how it was treated. However, when a priest blesses water, he's not thinking "Ah, I'll wave my hands over this water, that'll make the flock feel better." No, he's thinking "Oh Lord, please bless this water."


Holy water is treated as magical water, even though we all seem to be in consensus that it is, at best, a symbol. That's what bugs me about holy water.





*I'll take a moment here to talk about using logic to talk about religion. At first it sounds absurd, but if you approach it the same way you talk about logic in, say, Wheel of Time (or any other fantasy novel, for that matter), it works out pretty well. Both religions and fantasy books have their own internal logic that their world follows. Both are always unable to get it right 100% of the time, so there are always going to be some inconsistencies. That shouldn't stop people from enjoying the Dresden Files/the Bible, but I hope it does stop people from always assuming every single word put down is, heh, gospel.


(An added bonus is that it really irritates a certain type of person when you compare their holy book to the Dresden Files)
I amuse myself.
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A question on baptism - 10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM 899 Views
To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection. - 10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM 652 Views
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I don't follow. - 10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM 468 Views
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I don't keep up with RC theology much. - 10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM 451 Views
Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much. - 10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM 455 Views
You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM 487 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM 437 Views
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM 463 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM 606 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM 463 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM 667 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM 663 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM 470 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM 497 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:33:01 PM 365 Views
Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression. - 10/06/2011 12:34:36 PM 431 Views
I took a holy dip into the Ganges - 10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM 559 Views
Re: I took a holy dip into the Ganges - 10/06/2011 11:54:17 AM 618 Views
He dances and dips in The Ganges- Very Nice. *NM* - 11/06/2011 02:15:41 AM 208 Views
Three dips - that's the ceremony. - 11/06/2011 02:35:43 AM 424 Views
Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity - 10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM 594 Views
Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason - 10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM 532 Views
I misunderstood, lets try again - 10/06/2011 01:44:43 PM 610 Views
Huh. *NM* - 10/06/2011 02:06:58 PM 252 Views
A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM 657 Views
Re: A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:15:07 PM 628 Views
Re: A first responce - 10/06/2011 02:19:25 PM 561 Views
Do you want a theological answer or a historical one? - 10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM 626 Views
The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical - 10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM 499 Views
My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water - 10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM 592 Views
That is absurd. - 10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM 685 Views
It is absurd - 10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM 497 Views
When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move. - 10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM 616 Views
Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water" - 11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM 440 Views
The point is that it's a symbol. - 11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM 468 Views
I have no problem with water as a symbol - 11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM 538 Views
You are totally missing the point. - 11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM 621 Views
Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense - 11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM 586 Views
your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion - 11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM 841 Views
I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean" - 11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM 487 Views
Beliefs about holy water are internally logical. - 11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM 529 Views
Shrug. It was on topic. - 11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM 810 Views
Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. - 11/06/2011 10:23:02 AM 647 Views
Re: Baptism is almost, if not entirely, symbolic. - 11/06/2011 11:51:22 AM 657 Views
I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site *NM* - 12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM 229 Views
Because we are all nuts in our own special ways? *NM* - 12/06/2011 04:36:03 PM 199 Views

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