your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion
LadyLorraine Send a noteboard - 11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM
of course holy water isn't a single lick different than the water it was before it was blessed. It's even less different than homeopathic water, which isn't detectably different either (but at least has some ground to stand on compared to holy water, which hasn't had any physical process applied to it at all).
But it's not ABOUT THAT. It is entirely psychological. It's placebo. It's feel-good.
Yes, scientifically and logically, it is just "magic water". Practically speaking, normal water could easily take the place of "holy water". From a nonspiritual realistic standpoint, the whole deal is totally inane. But that's really not the point.
The point is that people's belief that the blessing of the water brings them closer to their deity and increases their inner purity, which gives them a measure of psychological comfort. In their mind, the blessing adds a new physical property that improves the water. It is illogical. It is blind belief and self-deception. If it helps people get through their life, then whatever, who cares. As long as no one is being hurt, why does it matter whether holy water is ACTUALLY any better?
Additionally, if you think back into history, it could be that holy water WAS "better". In earlier centuries, Holy water coming from a clean, running water source would be HEAPS more healthy than many of the usual water sources. I don't really know, but it would not surprise me if the beliefs around holy water did not stem from similar health histories as dietary laws.
But it's not ABOUT THAT. It is entirely psychological. It's placebo. It's feel-good.
Yes, scientifically and logically, it is just "magic water". Practically speaking, normal water could easily take the place of "holy water". From a nonspiritual realistic standpoint, the whole deal is totally inane. But that's really not the point.
The point is that people's belief that the blessing of the water brings them closer to their deity and increases their inner purity, which gives them a measure of psychological comfort. In their mind, the blessing adds a new physical property that improves the water. It is illogical. It is blind belief and self-deception. If it helps people get through their life, then whatever, who cares. As long as no one is being hurt, why does it matter whether holy water is ACTUALLY any better?
Additionally, if you think back into history, it could be that holy water WAS "better". In earlier centuries, Holy water coming from a clean, running water source would be HEAPS more healthy than many of the usual water sources. I don't really know, but it would not surprise me if the beliefs around holy water did not stem from similar health histories as dietary laws.
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This message last edited by LadyLorraine on 11/06/2011 at 04:15:14 PM
A question on baptism
10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM
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To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection.
10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM
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What I meant
10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM
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I don't follow.
10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM
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Re: I don't follow.
10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM
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I don't keep up with RC theology much.
10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM
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Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much.
10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM
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They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
11/06/2011 10:39:26 AM
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Re: They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
11/06/2011 11:53:53 AM
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You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM
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Circumcision remains common among Christians mostly for symbolic reasons as well.
11/06/2011 10:48:48 AM
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Hm, I don't know. I don't think I know any non-Jews who are circumsized that see it as a symbol
11/06/2011 04:44:02 PM
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I took a holy dip into the Ganges
10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM
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Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity
10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM
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Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason
10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM
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A first responce
10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM
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Do you want a theological answer or a historical one?
10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM
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The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical
10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM
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My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water
10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM
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That is absurd.
10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM
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It is absurd
10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM
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When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move.
10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM
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Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water"
11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM
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The point is that it's a symbol.
11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM
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I have no problem with water as a symbol
11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM
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You are totally missing the point.
11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM
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Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense
11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM
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your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion
11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM
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I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean"
11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM
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Beliefs about holy water are internally logical.
11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM
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Shrug. It was on topic.
11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM
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The more I read of your posts, the more I think you fundamentally misunderstand religious symbolism. *NM*
11/06/2011 10:51:17 PM
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Let me clarify: your statements are absurd.
10/06/2011 10:14:06 PM
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Check my response to Ghav for elaboration, but basically, your argument doesn't hold
11/06/2011 04:00:18 AM
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You went from saying spit was good to saying "clean water".
12/06/2011 02:04:26 AM
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I'm completely consistent. I was just staying away from extremes for conversation's sake.
12/06/2011 09:02:02 AM
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No one from a respectable faith thinks of holy water as "magic water". Period. *NM*
13/06/2011 04:56:53 AM
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All I know, Is a Lutheran Pastor told me, b/c i was not baptised I was going to hell, and had *NM*
11/06/2011 03:44:38 PM
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I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site *NM*
12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM
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