I just wondered about the internal explanation within Christian doctrine. The two do not always go hand in hand.
1) John was baptizing for he was a prophet who was saying the world was unclean, the world must be prepared for the Messiah, which in his mind was an apocalyptic event. Early Christians wrote that he was the forbearer of the one who comes after, and that he paved the way of Jesus. (John 3:22-36).
Now on Earth he would receive no authority to baptise, he was outside the realm of the King as well as the Priestly Class. In Ancient Israel there were 3 groups of people who supposedly spoke with God's will, the King, the Priests, and the Prophets. These people had different interests and when one gained power the others lost it. The prophets were the crazy guys in the wilderness denouncing the king and the priests saying that these people sin or errored. Of course the kings and priests would then reply that these were false prophets or have the prophets arrested (such as King Herod while a roman authority arrested John the Baptist who denounced the King's marriage, for the King married his dead brother's widow.)
2) On the reason that Jesus needed to be baptised even though he was without sin. Look to Matthew 3:15 (part of the greater 3:13 to 3:17 passage.)
"Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented. "
Here is the original passage in greek
http://biblos.com/matthew/3-15.htm
And specifically the lines "fufill all righteouness." Now while I ain't a greek scholar (bring out Tom for that,) according to the internets
πληρῶσαι πᾶσαν δικαιοσύνην.
1343 dikaiosýnē (from 1349 /díkē, "a judicial verdict") – properly, judicial approval (the verdict of approval); in the NT, the approval of God ("divine approval").
A) So Jesus was baptized either to be seen as correct in society, for he has done "the motions" or
B) Jesus was baptized for he must fulfill this ritual as many other rituals to make God happy for doing so would be part of his fulfillment of his life mission, God's mission.
A question on baptism
10/06/2011 09:21:44 AM
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To my knowledge, baptism does not stem from the Resurrection.
10/06/2011 11:01:17 AM
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What I meant
10/06/2011 11:03:08 AM
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I don't follow.
10/06/2011 11:08:07 AM
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Re: I don't follow.
10/06/2011 11:10:40 AM
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I don't keep up with RC theology much.
10/06/2011 11:15:52 AM
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Re: I don't keep up with RC theology much.
10/06/2011 11:17:53 AM
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They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
11/06/2011 10:39:26 AM
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Re: They should, IMHO, but the difficulty of definitively saying is why Limbo was created.
11/06/2011 11:53:53 AM
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You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:50:53 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:52:27 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:55:01 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 11:58:36 AM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:16:46 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:19:16 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:25:08 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:26:30 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:28:45 PM
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Re: You haven't necessarily developed a wrong impression.
10/06/2011 12:29:43 PM
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Circumcision remains common among Christians mostly for symbolic reasons as well.
11/06/2011 10:48:48 AM
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Hm, I don't know. I don't think I know any non-Jews who are circumsized that see it as a symbol
11/06/2011 04:44:02 PM
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I took a holy dip into the Ganges
10/06/2011 11:48:26 AM
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Early Christians and Jews were obsessed with purity
10/06/2011 12:56:58 PM
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Oh, I know about the historical/academic/anthropological reason
10/06/2011 01:04:43 PM
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I misunderstood, lets try again
10/06/2011 01:44:43 PM
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A first responce
10/06/2011 02:09:32 PM
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Do you want a theological answer or a historical one?
10/06/2011 03:16:44 PM
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The theological. I already had a fairly good idea of the historical
10/06/2011 03:18:51 PM
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My favorite fact about baptism is that is REQUIRES water... but it can be ANY water
10/06/2011 04:31:12 PM
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That is absurd.
10/06/2011 08:37:13 PM
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It is absurd
10/06/2011 08:56:19 PM
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When your post is eviscerated, resorting to "HURR RELIGION IS DUMB" isn't a winning move.
10/06/2011 10:00:39 PM
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Psh.You can dress it up with spiritualism and semantics, but the concept boils down to "magic water"
11/06/2011 03:56:03 AM
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The point is that it's a symbol.
11/06/2011 04:45:19 AM
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I have no problem with water as a symbol
11/06/2011 04:59:52 AM
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You are totally missing the point.
11/06/2011 02:46:08 PM
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Which again, is something that sounds nice and spiritual, but doesn't actually make any sense
11/06/2011 03:46:51 PM
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your problem is you're trying to apply objective logic to religion
11/06/2011 04:13:01 PM
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I'm not, exactly. Religion has internal logic. For example, certain things are "unclean"
11/06/2011 04:40:33 PM
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Beliefs about holy water are internally logical.
11/06/2011 07:36:08 PM
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Shrug. It was on topic.
11/06/2011 08:06:16 PM
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The more I read of your posts, the more I think you fundamentally misunderstand religious symbolism. *NM*
11/06/2011 10:51:17 PM
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Let me clarify: your statements are absurd.
10/06/2011 10:14:06 PM
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Check my response to Ghav for elaboration, but basically, your argument doesn't hold
11/06/2011 04:00:18 AM
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You went from saying spit was good to saying "clean water".
12/06/2011 02:04:26 AM
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I'm completely consistent. I was just staying away from extremes for conversation's sake.
12/06/2011 09:02:02 AM
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No one from a respectable faith thinks of holy water as "magic water". Period. *NM*
13/06/2011 04:56:53 AM
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All I know, Is a Lutheran Pastor told me, b/c i was not baptised I was going to hell, and had *NM*
11/06/2011 03:44:38 PM
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I never thought of it in that way, that is why I like this site *NM*
12/06/2011 04:26:40 PM
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