Active Users:1152 Time:22/11/2024 02:30:50 PM
I'm extremely skeptical of the "Oh, well, miracles wouldn't convince anyone" argument beetnemesis Send a noteboard - 19/05/2011 06:17:48 PM
The idea that God refuses to prove he exists is an old one, and pretty well argued, except for the fact that he offers proof ALL THE TIME in the Bible. In the Bible, pretty much any time something "supernatural" happens, that is a bit of proof to whomever witnessed it.

For example, I'm pretty sure any soldiers who fought at... Gibeon (wikipedia to the rescue!) noticed something was up, when the sun just refused to go down for an entire day while they were busy fighting their enemies.

Plus, it seems EXTREMELY disingenuous to say "Oh, well, the miracles of Jesus weren't there to prove faith." How many times in the bible is Jesus (or really any other miracle-worker in the Bible) confronted with people who are skeptical, and then he does something obviously supernatural, and people are all "Wow, OK, you're the real deal?" Sure, Jesus healed the sick because he was a nice guy, but don't you think that the now-healed leper and his family are going to be rock-hard believers, now?


Obviously this doesn't work for everyone- Jesus still had doubters, and a miracle today would likely be picked apart as a hoax by many. But the people who saw it would know it was true, and believe.



It's all very well and good to say "Oh, well, they have Moses and the prophets, that should be enough" but the fact is, that simply isn't true.

Especially in the modern age, which is so focused upon empirical evidence. We believe our senses. To use the example from your link, if a dead guy showed up and started talking and delivering warnings to me and my family, I would listen.

But, none of this "A Christmas Carol" garbage where he would only appear to me, at midnight, and then I wouldn't be sure if it was all just a dream or not.

Here's the setup: I'm eating dinner, with my family, maybe we have a scientist buddy over for Parcheesi, then the ghost of my grandmother appears and goes "Listen, guys, get your act together. It turns out the Anglicans, of all people, got it right. Yeah, who knew? Our Holy Father just really admires British pluck."

That would have a heck of a larger impact on me than the teachings of a given priest and his holy book, in a world filled with priests and holy books of dozens of different religions.


Anyway, that concept has always bugged me.
I amuse myself.
Reply to message
Three days until the Rapture. What are you gonna do? - 18/05/2011 04:37:44 PM 845 Views
I'm gonna pack my bags so I'm ready, - 18/05/2011 04:48:13 PM 487 Views
Taking my cat to After the Rapture Petcare - 18/05/2011 07:25:20 PM 640 Views
It might be the end of church but I doubt it will trigger the end of the world - 18/05/2011 07:28:23 PM 586 Views
I was more talking about the supposed Rapture on the 21st... - 18/05/2011 08:30:00 PM 503 Views
My wife's church switched to a female chaplain and every predicted doomsday - 18/05/2011 08:53:38 PM 476 Views
same thing i do every night - 18/05/2011 07:28:48 PM 487 Views
Hey Brain, Can I come with you??- signed Pinky. *NM* - 20/05/2011 03:29:18 AM 225 Views
Yikes, they've gotta give us more warning - 18/05/2011 07:38:47 PM 528 Views
No worries. - 18/05/2011 08:28:10 PM 557 Views
What is this thing - 18/05/2011 08:36:23 PM 508 Views
I found this but I can't tell if it is meant to a spoof or if it is real - 18/05/2011 08:51:23 PM 556 Views
Yes, I saw that one, too. - 18/05/2011 08:54:37 PM 434 Views
He's supposedly serious, and has been making predictions for about forty years. - 18/05/2011 08:55:55 PM 561 Views
Like Homer, he predicted the Rapture on at least one earlier occasion, but has "corrected" his error - 18/05/2011 09:26:07 PM 503 Views
Psh, if you want to lead me to Christ, you should REALLY follow his example - 19/05/2011 03:33:12 AM 464 Views
Caution: Zebra Xing. - 19/05/2011 06:27:43 AM 691 Views
I'm extremely skeptical of the "Oh, well, miracles wouldn't convince anyone" argument - 19/05/2011 06:17:48 PM 414 Views
Oh, and you get 10 points for the Zebra Xing reference *NM* - 19/05/2011 06:18:13 PM 204 Views
Fuck a Nun. *NM* - 19/05/2011 06:06:30 AM 210 Views
The guy is a false teacher who's deceiving people who don't read their Bibles. - 19/05/2011 03:06:01 PM 597 Views
He's not the first, and he won't be the last. *NM* - 19/05/2011 05:01:53 PM 265 Views
You can't spell Rapture without Rap *shudders* *NM* - 19/05/2011 03:38:19 PM 209 Views
Bad Jens, BAD! *NM* - 20/05/2011 03:31:16 AM 198 Views
On Saturday? Running a half marathon *NM* - 19/05/2011 06:18:38 PM 204 Views
Ran one two weekends ago. 10k this Sat. Have fun! *NM* - 19/05/2011 06:19:47 PM 294 Views
Half because you'll be raptured midway through? *NM* - 19/05/2011 10:56:46 PM 219 Views
No, half because I finish there *NM* - 20/05/2011 07:36:05 AM 204 Views
How big is this Raptor? - 19/05/2011 06:33:28 PM 463 Views
If they get too big, how do you tell them apart from Tyranasaurus? - 19/05/2011 10:58:36 PM 440 Views
I'm going to poop. - 21/05/2011 05:41:24 AM 440 Views

Reply to Message