I'm extremely skeptical of the "Oh, well, miracles wouldn't convince anyone" argument
beetnemesis Send a noteboard - 19/05/2011 06:17:48 PM
The idea that God refuses to prove he exists is an old one, and pretty well argued, except for the fact that he offers proof ALL THE TIME in the Bible. In the Bible, pretty much any time something "supernatural" happens, that is a bit of proof to whomever witnessed it.
For example, I'm pretty sure any soldiers who fought at... Gibeon (wikipedia to the rescue!) noticed something was up, when the sun just refused to go down for an entire day while they were busy fighting their enemies.
Plus, it seems EXTREMELY disingenuous to say "Oh, well, the miracles of Jesus weren't there to prove faith." How many times in the bible is Jesus (or really any other miracle-worker in the Bible) confronted with people who are skeptical, and then he does something obviously supernatural, and people are all "Wow, OK, you're the real deal?" Sure, Jesus healed the sick because he was a nice guy, but don't you think that the now-healed leper and his family are going to be rock-hard believers, now?
Obviously this doesn't work for everyone- Jesus still had doubters, and a miracle today would likely be picked apart as a hoax by many. But the people who saw it would know it was true, and believe.
It's all very well and good to say "Oh, well, they have Moses and the prophets, that should be enough" but the fact is, that simply isn't true.
Especially in the modern age, which is so focused upon empirical evidence. We believe our senses. To use the example from your link, if a dead guy showed up and started talking and delivering warnings to me and my family, I would listen.
But, none of this "A Christmas Carol" garbage where he would only appear to me, at midnight, and then I wouldn't be sure if it was all just a dream or not.
Here's the setup: I'm eating dinner, with my family, maybe we have a scientist buddy over for Parcheesi, then the ghost of my grandmother appears and goes "Listen, guys, get your act together. It turns out the Anglicans, of all people, got it right. Yeah, who knew? Our Holy Father just really admires British pluck."
That would have a heck of a larger impact on me than the teachings of a given priest and his holy book, in a world filled with priests and holy books of dozens of different religions.
Anyway, that concept has always bugged me.
For example, I'm pretty sure any soldiers who fought at... Gibeon (wikipedia to the rescue!) noticed something was up, when the sun just refused to go down for an entire day while they were busy fighting their enemies.
Plus, it seems EXTREMELY disingenuous to say "Oh, well, the miracles of Jesus weren't there to prove faith." How many times in the bible is Jesus (or really any other miracle-worker in the Bible) confronted with people who are skeptical, and then he does something obviously supernatural, and people are all "Wow, OK, you're the real deal?" Sure, Jesus healed the sick because he was a nice guy, but don't you think that the now-healed leper and his family are going to be rock-hard believers, now?
Obviously this doesn't work for everyone- Jesus still had doubters, and a miracle today would likely be picked apart as a hoax by many. But the people who saw it would know it was true, and believe.
It's all very well and good to say "Oh, well, they have Moses and the prophets, that should be enough" but the fact is, that simply isn't true.
Especially in the modern age, which is so focused upon empirical evidence. We believe our senses. To use the example from your link, if a dead guy showed up and started talking and delivering warnings to me and my family, I would listen.
But, none of this "A Christmas Carol" garbage where he would only appear to me, at midnight, and then I wouldn't be sure if it was all just a dream or not.
Here's the setup: I'm eating dinner, with my family, maybe we have a scientist buddy over for Parcheesi, then the ghost of my grandmother appears and goes "Listen, guys, get your act together. It turns out the Anglicans, of all people, got it right. Yeah, who knew? Our Holy Father just really admires British pluck."
That would have a heck of a larger impact on me than the teachings of a given priest and his holy book, in a world filled with priests and holy books of dozens of different religions.
Anyway, that concept has always bugged me.
I amuse myself.
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