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Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. Joel Send a noteboard - 19/05/2011 04:55:21 AM
Statements like that are what make me nervous, because you seem to be saying we know exotic dark matter is out there and are now simply refining our understanding of that known substance. Another unhypothesized approach might be accurate, but we've already found the answer so we won't bother looking for it. If you're just saying direct detection experiments will narrow the space of all possible theories that's different, of course, but if you're saying dark matter has been proven by default and we're just seeking experimental and observational evidence to better describe what we know to exist we're back where we started: We've never directly detected it, but we know it's there, so let's keep looking till we find it. Whether it actually IS there or not. I'm not confident that we'll quickly realize if it's not there because it's impossible to prove a negative; that's why there are still people looking for proton decay despite the fact it's not only unlikely to occur, but unlikely to be detectable in any reproducable way even if it does.

The evidence we have points very strongly toward dark matter being exotic. (This is what, the dozenth time I've said this?) That means that most physicists are going to focus on those avenues. Some physicists will continue to focus on other avenues. This is how research works in any field.

True, and as it should be, I just want to be certain we don't mistake very compelling evidence for incontrovertible proof, certainly not to the point of ignoring superior alternatives. That there are plenty of people eager to make a name for themselves by invalidating an established principle is somewhat encouraging in that respect, but it's still expecting objective fact from people with an agenda, and exotic dark matter isn't really "establishment" enough to attract rather than repel such contrariness.
Your problem seems to be that you're tossing around these qualitative "worries" without any quantitative analysis. When you do this, every concern seems like it's all or nothing; this is virtually never actually the case. The repeated comparisons to proton decay (a subject actively researched by only a handful of people) demonstrate how divorced your worrying is from quantitative reality.

I think it's more that I'm looking at the quantitative track record of scientific theory in general rather than the data on dark matter specifically, and I see how that's probably a mistake. Ultimately any theory has to stand on its the merits of observation supporting it rather than be tested against the collective success of past theories. Not only is its validity independent of theirs, but since much of the exercise is reducing areas of known inaccuracy, it's easy to cite a mountain of disproven and/or modified theories that don't prove much except the limitations of mans intellect and knowledge, which is a motive rather than deterrent to further research. Most people aren't researching proton decay because it's increasingly untenable--but research continues regardless, which isn't a bad thing in itself, so long as it does become an END in itself, in defiance of evidence. Other than a GUT as old as I am, what GUTs DON'T require proton decay?
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Exciting video about the universe - 28/04/2011 10:14:55 AM 1089 Views
Cool, and true *NM* - 28/04/2011 11:46:29 AM 331 Views
I still think dark matter's just non-luminous matter without a convenient light source to reflect. - 28/04/2011 10:34:21 PM 817 Views
We've just about ruled out the idea that dark matter is just non-luminous "ordinary" matter. - 28/04/2011 11:44:34 PM 747 Views
I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 29/04/2011 01:52:49 AM 679 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 29/04/2011 02:56:32 AM 792 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 30/04/2011 05:02:49 PM 747 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 30/04/2011 08:56:35 PM 618 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 02/05/2011 01:28:30 AM 652 Views
Re: I'm aware of the Bullet Cluster, though admittedly not much more than that. - 04/05/2011 04:18:18 AM 757 Views
There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 07/05/2011 02:04:53 AM 828 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 09/05/2011 11:28:48 PM 672 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 14/05/2011 05:36:45 AM 617 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 17/05/2011 02:09:40 AM 706 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 19/05/2011 04:55:21 AM 627 Views
Re: There's such a thing as knowing when you're licked, and I believe I am. - 24/05/2011 09:32:27 PM 704 Views
The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. - 24/05/2011 10:34:04 PM 647 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. - 24/05/2011 11:08:01 PM 854 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. - 25/05/2011 01:27:10 AM 666 Views
Re: The Pati-Salam model was the one I had in mind. - 31/05/2011 09:16:18 AM 735 Views
Also, re: lensing from ordinary matter: - 29/04/2011 05:18:47 AM 681 Views
This seems like another example of what confuses the issue. - 30/04/2011 05:25:04 PM 799 Views
Re: This seems like another example of what confuses the issue. - 30/04/2011 08:56:40 PM 770 Views
That discussion seems to reduce to "as little new and exotic physics as possible". - 02/05/2011 01:29:03 AM 763 Views
Re: I still think... (apparently, there is a 100 character limit on subjects, and yours was 99) - 28/04/2011 11:57:15 PM 997 Views
Seems to happen to me a lot; sorry. - 29/04/2011 12:56:14 AM 696 Views
None of this reflects on the actual facts of dark matter. - 29/04/2011 01:32:52 AM 661 Views
I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. - 30/04/2011 04:30:28 PM 779 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. - 30/04/2011 08:56:44 PM 613 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. - 02/05/2011 01:28:58 AM 1130 Views
Re: I concede my grasp (or grope) is a somewhat superficial laymans, yes. - 04/05/2011 04:18:27 AM 657 Views
I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. - 07/05/2011 02:05:09 AM 848 Views
Re: I don't object to changing my mind, but can take more convincing than I really should. - 09/05/2011 11:32:17 PM 774 Views

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