They had biblical justification for it, too.
These are people I know and love, gifted preachers and pastoral care providers. God ALREADY ordained them. We're just catching up.
These are people I know and love, gifted preachers and pastoral care providers. God ALREADY ordained them. We're just catching up.
Abolition is hardly condemned as many times in scripture as homosexuality. About the closest we get is a disputed passage where Paul says being a slave is irrelevant to your faith and then EITHER that you should remain a slave OR that you should seek your freedom given the chance, depending on the reading. There is nothing like the statement of how a slave can legitimately be freed to allow a heterosexual to legitimately become homosexual. There's not much endorsement OR prohibition of slavery biblically, which is why pro-slavery groups invariably fell back on "Hams Sin" and the statement he and his descendants would serve his brothers to rationalize slavery--it was the best they could do. TECHNICALLY, there actually isn't much biblical basis for prohibited slavery, as such (though there are many passages from the Torah down to the NT that mitigate slavery), it's just practically impossible to apply the Golden Rule to people considered property. However, abolition of slavery isn't something the bible, Church Fathers and Church tradition and practice for thousands of years explicitly and repeatedly condemns. If a fellow Christian told Moses, Paul, Augustine, Aquinas or Lewis he was freeing his slave he would almost certainly have been commended; if he told any of them he was marrying another man the best he could expect from any of them would be sincere regret and a promise to pray for his soul. Slavery simply never had the integral relationship with Christianity that heterosexuality does.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A.
11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM
- 1334 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification?
12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM
- 835 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests.
12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM
- 823 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood?
12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM
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Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much.
12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM
- 712 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned
12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM
- 711 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route.
14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM
- 680 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible.
14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM
- 738 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means.
14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM
- 913 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy.
14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM
- 718 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though).
12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM
- 791 Views
There's ample precedent for female religious leaders, even within the bible.
12/05/2011 06:51:05 AM
- 821 Views
Since when is Moses' society the be-all end all?
12/05/2011 07:12:41 PM
- 701 Views
Since never, which is why I referenced five other eras you completely ignored.
14/05/2011 01:11:30 AM
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They did so, via negativa.
12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM
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Sorry for the delay, particularly since it looks like I'll be spending a fair amount of time here.
14/05/2011 12:31:33 AM
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Your church has a constitution?!
12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM
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My Church has a congress! *NM*
12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM
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Haha no way! *NM*
12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM
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Well, we have one group of laity and one of bishops, so it is only mildy utter chaos. *NM*
12/05/2011 05:51:09 AM
- 343 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible.
12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM
- 907 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape.
12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM
- 738 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit.
12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM
- 849 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis
12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM
- 789 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any.
12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM
- 761 Views
There are cases in which hypocrisy is far better than the alternatives.
12/05/2011 10:04:32 PM
- 834 Views
Hypocrisy is better than, say, setting gays on fire, yes.
12/05/2011 10:10:40 PM
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My statement is that, from a pragmatic point of view, hypocrisy shouldn't be discouraged too much.
13/05/2011 10:05:39 PM
- 800 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then?
13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM
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I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part.
13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM
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The Bible says what it says. The problem... people like to tell us just what else it's saying.
13/05/2011 05:31:29 PM
- 700 Views
You don't reconcile... you pick the parts you like and adjust the rest to suit you.
13/05/2011 09:33:54 PM
- 661 Views
Another example...
12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM
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That's what people said about churches opposing slavery.
12/05/2011 04:06:26 PM
- 712 Views
That is a false dichotomy and we both know it.
14/05/2011 02:07:19 AM
- 712 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct.
12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM
- 631 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats.
12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM
- 691 Views
We both know that isn't the case
12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM
- 799 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM
- 760 Views
No Protestant denomination has added so much as a word to the Bible
12/05/2011 05:58:16 PM
- 638 Views
So, everyone hates Judith, then?
12/05/2011 06:40:11 PM
- 699 Views
The Catholics and Eastern Orthodox Churches accept Judith as part of Scripture.
12/05/2011 07:51:27 PM
- 675 Views
Does the Eastern Orthodox Church also segregate deuterocanonical works like Roman Catholicism does?
14/05/2011 02:19:03 AM
- 981 Views
The Eastern Church bases everything on the Septuagint.
14/05/2011 02:34:41 AM
- 726 Views
That sounds appealing, and makes sense.
14/05/2011 02:44:56 AM
- 748 Views
Oh, I just enjoy calling Protestants "heretics" to remind them not everyone agrees with them.
14/05/2011 03:25:42 AM
- 685 Views
Re: Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels
12/05/2011 08:52:48 PM
- 709 Views
The NIV is terrible. The NASB has the best translation I have found (of the NT, at least).
12/05/2011 10:43:58 PM
- 846 Views
I find this really weird, to be honest
13/05/2011 05:48:28 AM
- 717 Views
Well, it wasn't just Athanasius. But yes, we are lucky in that respect. *NM*
13/05/2011 06:32:48 AM
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Athanasius's list reflected the victory of Pauline Christianity
13/05/2011 02:52:53 PM
- 676 Views
There's a school of thought that says that's a strong vindication of Athanasius.
14/05/2011 02:37:49 AM
- 616 Views