Active Users:678 Time:11/03/2025 06:55:18 PM
You make a very important but too often overlooked point. Joel Send a noteboard - 14/05/2011 01:54:40 AM
Which I guess makes it no surprise it's overlooked here.
So what? You seem to have a very poor understanding of the nature of faith and salvation if that's your attitude. The forgiveness of sins by Christ is founded on the penitence of the sinner. Jesus said to the adulteress, "Go, and sin no more", not "Go, and keep doing what you've been doing". While every human is a sinner in Christian doctrine, there is a difference between sinning and asking for forgiveness, and trying not to sin again, and being comfortable with sin and professing it to not be a sin. That is pretty much the standard definition of an unrepentant sinner no matter what denomination you belong to. If the priest is a homosexual who tries to refrain from acting on his urges, then he's no different than the priest who struggles with any other sin. It's when he claims that what he's doing is okay that he has crossed a line, and a very clear one at that.

That's the core of it, yet alarmingly easy to miss. It cuts both ways of course; some very strict denominations practically deny the possibility of repentance when church members sin, so people only have to screw up once to be permanently ostracized whatever they do subsequently. Yet on the other end of the spectrum are churches that seem to feel something as trivial as unrepentant sin shouldn't be a barrier to fellowship with God (which is totally the churchs call, right? ;)) My experience has been that both phenomena are most prevalent with BAC churches, where the Sinners Prayer, an alter call, dunking or whatever rite of passage they endorse somehow makes people immune to sin, and any subsequent sins are either treated as proof the young Christian was insincere or unclean, or dismissed because they can't have sinned; they're CHRISTIANS. Of course, this overlooks another scriptural point on which Paul is explicit in multiple places; had he the luxury of putting his life on autopilot once he accepted Christ he wouldn't have spoken of "finishing the race" or "perfection in Christ" as a process rather than an instantaneous event.

*returns from tangent* :P
The point is, if someone objects to a basic and enduring Church statement that a given act is sinful, but nonetheless commits it and means to continue, the solution is not conforming the Church to their wishes, but a religion (if any) that condones them. Just because a Christian desires something that the Church condemns doesn't mean the Holy Spirit is conveniently telling them the Church is wrong and their desire right; as you correctly note, that's the nature of a Christians struggle against sin, one the Church teaches is impossible for anyone to win apart from Christ. I realize there's a popular view that Christianity is "slavery to Christ", but within the Church I thought it well established that slavery to sin is NOT Christianity. It's one thing to err, repent, be forgiven in Grace and try to be righteous henceforth, and quite another to revel in error while calling it Gods will.
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Presbyterian Church (USA) passes Amendment 10-A. - 11/05/2011 05:39:29 PM 1398 Views
*NM* - 11/05/2011 06:10:26 PM 306 Views
I am happy to see this. *NM* - 11/05/2011 07:22:59 PM 344 Views
Homosexuals must die! - 11/05/2011 08:25:25 PM 1065 Views
I agree! This sort of behavior can NOT be excused!!! - 11/05/2011 10:38:16 PM 713 Views
Yay!!. - 11/05/2011 10:38:51 PM 894 Views
Glad to hear it. *NM* - 11/05/2011 10:46:39 PM 404 Views
Well done. *NM* - 11/05/2011 11:07:22 PM 350 Views
What's the language? Did they at least TRY to give a doctrinal justification? - 12/05/2011 02:10:46 AM 909 Views
Thank you for that rousing argument against married priests. - 12/05/2011 03:36:51 AM 884 Views
Why ARE you letting women into the priesthood? - 12/05/2011 04:16:50 AM 830 Views
Because Episcopalians don't listen to the Bible much. - 12/05/2011 05:47:03 AM 776 Views
That's just fine as far as I'm concerned - 12/05/2011 02:23:44 PM 783 Views
Yes, I suppose a church could go that route. - 14/05/2011 07:38:02 AM 743 Views
I'm not attempting to impose a dichotomy on the Bible. - 14/05/2011 03:25:30 PM 806 Views
I don't even know what following the Bible in its entirety means. - 14/05/2011 09:09:10 PM 982 Views
As an exercise, I tried to think of how I would justify allowing homosexuals as clergy. - 14/05/2011 04:19:43 PM 789 Views
Wow. - 20/05/2011 10:15:21 AM 811 Views
Thanks (I'm actually OK with women priests though). - 12/05/2011 07:09:11 AM 865 Views
It's more a question of interpretational standards. - 12/05/2011 02:29:43 PM 750 Views
Agreed. - 14/05/2011 01:17:45 AM 823 Views
They did so, via negativa. - 12/05/2011 04:22:17 PM 926 Views
Your church has a constitution?! - 12/05/2011 03:36:41 AM 787 Views
My Church has a congress! *NM* - 12/05/2011 03:37:52 AM 386 Views
Haha no way! *NM* - 12/05/2011 03:46:32 AM 342 Views
We have a General Assembly and a Moderator. - 12/05/2011 04:18:34 PM 881 Views
I had no idea the US was based on that system. - 12/05/2011 06:22:58 PM 712 Views
It is pretty common practice - 12/05/2011 06:54:02 PM 755 Views
Oh I'm sure it is with newer churches. - 12/05/2011 10:49:11 PM 806 Views
I'm happy to hear this, personally. I also wonder how you reconcile this with the Bible. - 12/05/2011 04:11:31 AM 978 Views
Every direct reference to homosexuality in the Bible is a reference to rape. - 12/05/2011 04:12:43 PM 808 Views
Every single word that you wrote in your response is complete bullshit. - 12/05/2011 05:50:07 PM 935 Views
Knock off your eisegesis, try some exegesis - 12/05/2011 07:02:45 PM 852 Views
I'm trying to figure out just what your "gifts" are, because I don't see any. - 12/05/2011 07:30:39 PM 826 Views
Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? - 13/05/2011 06:29:31 PM 832 Views
Re: Oh, is that how we're playing this, then? - 13/05/2011 07:02:35 PM 799 Views
I'm not playing. I'm pointing out some glaring errors on your part. - 13/05/2011 07:25:08 PM 716 Views
Danny will correct me if I'm wrong, but... - 13/05/2011 09:55:14 PM 929 Views
Danny persistently refuses to say that - 13/05/2011 10:13:55 PM 854 Views
You're a fucking moron. *NM* - 15/05/2011 11:11:08 PM 374 Views
You make a very important but too often overlooked point. - 14/05/2011 01:54:40 AM 858 Views
??? the bible was harsher on homosexulaity than on rape - 12/05/2011 06:56:43 PM 787 Views
Read Judges. - 12/05/2011 07:17:29 PM 787 Views
Another example... - 12/05/2011 09:19:52 AM 719 Views
That's what people said about churches opposing slavery. - 12/05/2011 04:06:26 PM 778 Views
I rest my case *NM* - 12/05/2011 04:48:32 PM 337 Views
That is a false dichotomy and we both know it. - 14/05/2011 02:07:19 AM 774 Views
If you claim to follow the entire Bible, then you are completely correct. - 12/05/2011 06:04:38 PM 702 Views
On the contrary, this move will take some butts out of the seats. - 12/05/2011 07:16:22 PM 763 Views
We both know that isn't the case - 12/05/2011 07:55:41 PM 866 Views
Whatever your issue is, get over it. - 13/05/2011 06:17:26 PM 738 Views
You'd be a lot more effective... - 13/05/2011 06:45:31 PM 840 Views
You haven't adequately expressed your theology - 13/05/2011 07:28:54 PM 837 Views
Cool cool. I have a question on a semi-related note, about Protestant Gospels - 12/05/2011 05:33:49 PM 823 Views
Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... - 13/05/2011 07:14:01 PM 740 Views
Re: Since I haven't gotten around to asking yet... - 15/05/2011 03:18:23 PM 1143 Views

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