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Yes, your response is a load of crap. Tom Send a noteboard - 14/04/2011 04:55:20 PM
I realize that Obama is playing politics and so I don't fault him for coming out with an unrealistic budget proposal (at least in theory). What I don't understand is why anyone would honestly support it.


I support it.


The harsh reality is that raising taxes on the rich is not going to be enough to balance the budget. There aren't enough rich people to tax to generate that kind of revenue.


Crap #1. During Clinton era, taxes were higher and we have surpluses. Almost all Clinton years we had balanced budget.


Perhaps you forgot, but during the Clinton era all taxes were higher across the board. If you're advocating a return to the Clinton-era level of taxation for all tax brackets, then you are tacitly supporting my original assertion that having the rich pay for everything isn't going to work. QED.


The middle class contributes the majority of the taxes collected by the Treasury

Crap #2. That's not true.

My statistics say only 40% of taxes are paid by the top 1% (the people that Obama is proposing to raise taxes on). Since the poor do not pay more than a couple of percentage points in taxes, this means almost 60% of tax revenues from the income tax are paid by people who are in the middle class.


Any attempt at fiscal responsibility is going to likely see a return to the Clinton-era tax levels.


Judging by the context of the post, I assume you meant this as a bad thing, which is crap #3.


Well, when you assume you at least make an ass out of yourself. I'm being a realist here. I think we need to return to the Clinton levels of taxation. Of course, I'm only willing to support that if massive cuts are made to the entitlement programs to ensure long-term viability.


Furthermore, Obama's refusal to touch Medicare and Medicaid is absolutely absurd.


Crap #4. Obama did not refused to touch Medicare and Medicaid. He refused to abolish it. But he actually promised to reform it.


If by "reform" you mean that he is going to make some minor adjustments, then you are being completely unrealistic. As much as I hate using wikipedia as a source, it at least attempts to maintain a non-partisan stance. The statistics are not reassuring:

Medicare faces continuing financial challenges. In its 2008 annual report to Congress, the Medicare Board of Trustees reported that the program's hospital insurance trust fund could run out of money by 2017. The trustees have made such projections in the past, but this one was bleaker than the outlook reported in 2007.

As an example of the problem, according to the Associated Press, the average wage couple jointly earned $89,000 annually in 2010. Upon attaining eligibility for Medicare and retirement in 2011, they would have paid in $114,000 in Medicare payroll taxes total. But their expected average medical services, including prescriptions are expected to cost $355,000, about three times what they paid in. When the last of the Baby Boomers retire in about 2030, 80 million people will be expecting coverage; the ratio of tax payers supporting the system is expected to drop from today's 3.5 for each person, to 2.3.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/13/news/economy/medicaid_medicare_obama/index.htm


The program has been doubling in cost every five years or so,


Crap #5. Even if factual basis of it maybe true, the intent was to show that it's either Obama fault or Dem party fault. When in fact, cost of Medicare and Medicaid skyrocketed during Bush administration when Republuican enacted pay outs for their friends (anyone remember Medicaid D which Reps didn't provided money for in the first place?)


Wait...what I said was crap "even if [the] factual basis of it maybe [sic] true"? Once again, you're assuming and making a complete and total ass of yourself. There is no way that the skyrocketing cost of Medicare is Obama's fault, since Medicare has been around since the 1960s. Both parties share a responsibility for allowing it to become the monstrosity that it is today, though I will admit that if I had to apportion blame the Democrats would receive more than Republicans.


Fraud is rampant, payouts are obscene (example: motorized scooters cost private insurers $1200, but Medicare pays $3000 for them, hence non-stop commercials for the same on cable news networks).


Crap #6. Remember, that this quotes is in the context of "Obama's refusal to touch Medicare and Medicaid" crap. Meaning this example supposed to show us how evil Obama is to waste our money. This is bullsh!t. In fact, Obama said the following: "Our approach lowers the government’s health care bills by reducing the cost of health care itself. ... We will reform these programs, but we will not abandon the fundamental commitment this country has kept for generations."


Once again, you're making an ass of yourself. Fraud is a fact. I don't care if you feel the need to call it "crap" just because you think you need to defend the President. Obama isn't wasting my money here. Congress is. Specifically, the previous Congress, which once again refused to fix the problem last summer. I hope that the bill comes up for another vote in this Congress, but I'm not sure if it will. I also have yet to see that anything in the so-called "ObamaCare" law addresses these gross overpayments by Medicare. In fact, I'm sure that it isn't there, or Congress wouldn't have felt the need to vote on it last summer.


Even if those two problems were fixed the programs are still going to bankrupt the US.

Crap #7. So doomed if we do, doomed if we don't? Is that what you are saying?


No. I said that fixing fraud and overpayments by itself was insufficient to fix the problem. Medicare and Medicaid are hideously expensive and ballooning in a way that is unsustainable. While letting lots of old people die is a terrible thing to do, we need to figure out some way to mitigate the uncontrollable costs of these programs. Projections show that they may reach 20% of GDP within 50 years, which is larger than the entire Federal budget today. And that's assuming we have no Social Security program, no military, no Federal government.


It's just disgusting that Obama can try to pretend like his proposal is reasonable. It disgusts me in a way that few things Obama has done have disgusted me.

I see that you are disgusted a lot by whatever Obama does.


Yes, yes I am. I'm also disgusted by all the things he has failed to do in other areas.
Political correctness is the pettiest form of casuistry.

ἡ δὲ κἀκ τριῶν τρυπημάτων ἐργαζομένη ἐνεκάλει τῇ φύσει, δυσφορουμένη, ὅτι δὴ μὴ καὶ τοὺς τιτθοὺς αὐτῇ εὐρύτερον ἢ νῦν εἰσι τρυπώη, ὅπως καὶ ἄλλην ἐνταῦθα μίξιν ἐπιτεχνᾶσθαι δυνατὴ εἴη. – Procopius

Ummaka qinnassa nīk!

*MySmiley*
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How can anyone seriously support Obama's budget proposals? - 14/04/2011 02:49:30 PM 1088 Views
I agree with your overall point but I do question one of your facts - 14/04/2011 03:25:25 PM 576 Views
Using IRS data for 2008: (most recent year for which data is available) - 14/04/2011 03:45:20 PM 595 Views
those numbers sem high. What is your source? *NM* - 14/04/2011 05:05:26 PM 230 Views
Data: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/08in31mt.xls *NM* - 14/04/2011 08:32:42 PM 238 Views
That's a breakdown of who modifies their returns and how it affects revenue. - 14/04/2011 09:15:21 PM 451 Views
I see. Well, nevermind then. *NM* - 15/04/2011 01:37:13 PM 227 Views
I believe you are questioning one of my definitions, not one of my facts. - 14/04/2011 04:36:35 PM 510 Views
No matter how you define it I think it would be hard to call the top 5% middle class - 14/04/2011 05:03:33 PM 522 Views
A family making $150,000 is not middle class? - 14/04/2011 06:07:07 PM 531 Views
reading what you said again - 14/04/2011 06:37:54 PM 495 Views
What a load of crap! - 14/04/2011 03:49:29 PM 672 Views
Yes, your response is a load of crap. - 14/04/2011 04:55:20 PM 572 Views
Re: Yes, your response is a load of crap. - 14/04/2011 05:13:14 PM 653 Views
This is our first war without a tax increase. - 14/04/2011 06:05:43 PM 574 Views
"Artful Dodgers" - 14/04/2011 06:30:58 PM 514 Views
Not giving me the information I need - 14/04/2011 09:33:36 PM 500 Views
Er, check facts - 14/04/2011 05:04:02 PM 701 Views
Yeah, lets fact check - 14/04/2011 05:43:34 PM 553 Views
I'm not sure thats entirely right - 14/04/2011 05:51:18 PM 731 Views
You basically just said what I said. How am I not right? - 14/04/2011 05:56:08 PM 510 Views
Re: You basically just said what I said. How am I not right? - 15/04/2011 02:48:07 AM 627 Views
A response - 14/04/2011 06:33:49 PM 628 Views
I only have one thing to ask. - 15/04/2011 02:36:07 PM 484 Views
What about the farm subsidies and the military? - 15/04/2011 04:54:54 PM 542 Views
Re: What about the farm subsidies and the military? - 15/04/2011 08:21:16 PM 507 Views
Cutting the military isn't enough - 16/04/2011 04:27:11 AM 482 Views

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