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Religion throwdown? In this thread? Was not expecting it, but okay. Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 15/03/2011 06:33:32 AM
I dislike it when people from a particular point of view (e.g. here, you and religion) say something like "I only counted X" as a means of weakening a point. Well, you didn't count well. There are six that specifically mention God or Lord, so 100% more than what you counted. Additionally, there are many more that are referential in that respect. No big deal, but you could have at least counted them all and then said "I counted six".

It's only six if you infer that mentioning God in a sentence inextricably links everything in that sentence to God. I counted three who implied that God had caused the disaster. One of the ones that mentions "lord" does so specifically to bemoan the American response; it doesn't say that God caused anything.

So no, I counted just fine, thank you very much.

You'll note all I said was "the bad side of religion". In reality, I think this is all a little over dramatized; many of those people appear to be fourteen year old boys who probably don't even know if they believe in God or not, and probably won't spend more than two hours, combined, over the course of their lives, really considering the implications of divinity or of an empty universe. I don't think any intelligent religious person would have a perspective like this; I've just always found the idea of "divine retribution" to be oddly masochistic, as though there's some satisfaction derived from the punishment handed out for some long ago transgression (whether banging your secretary on your wife's birthday, or starting a war). Ian McEwan mentions something similar, when he talks about how odd it is for people to pray to God to save a family member's life, and then -- once they've died -- people pray to God to accept their family member into heaven. There's an odd dichotomy in religion, to me: God should forgive me for my sins; God should punish that other guy for his sins. I'm not saying this is the case among those people who are really well read and thoughtful about religion, just among the great mass of the world.

I'm not arguing any of this. I'm simply saying that you can replace every instance of "religion" with "atheism" and every instance of "divine retribution" with "poetic justice," and you'll have an equally valid statement. The drive for vengeance isn't exclusive to the religious by any means; they simply have a handy vehicle through which to personify their desires. I agree that it's a distasteful desire; my contention is that you're focusing on one way humans express this desire and ignoring the others.

The rest of the post is vague theology which, as you say, most people who spend time thinking about such things don't agree with. I agree with you that the beliefs of some people seem contradictory and odd; I don't really know what that has to do with anything, though. :P
"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla

Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel

*MySmiley*

This message last edited by Ghavrel on 15/03/2011 at 06:36:08 AM
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This makes me feel sick, and very angry. - 12/03/2011 11:00:10 PM 1545 Views
Yeah, that's pretty messed up - 12/03/2011 11:07:31 PM 672 Views
People think the Earthquake is the payback for Pearl Harbor? - 12/03/2011 11:24:29 PM 745 Views
At first I thought it was just really dark humor, which I admittedly have a taste for. - 12/03/2011 11:31:51 PM 677 Views
Re: At first I thought it was just really dark humor, which I admittedly have a taste for. - 12/03/2011 11:51:36 PM 786 Views
Makes sense. - 13/03/2011 07:17:46 AM 643 Views
I'd hate to be the one who started that as a joke - 13/03/2011 05:16:38 AM 758 Views
Wow *NM* - 12/03/2011 11:50:56 PM 354 Views
this does as well, and it's also related to people's ignorance - 13/03/2011 01:26:29 AM 881 Views
that video deserves it own thread - 13/03/2011 01:57:24 AM 764 Views
done - 13/03/2011 07:06:01 AM 656 Views
That video disturbed me enough that I tried to figure out why anyone would do that. - 13/03/2011 05:39:20 AM 727 Views
I agree with you - 13/03/2011 06:07:18 AM 584 Views
It's the hypocrisy of people who don't recognize their ancestors also moved here. - 13/03/2011 06:21:41 AM 737 Views
except that they had a town supervisor and two congressmen, that's hardly uneducated - 13/03/2011 06:55:49 AM 770 Views
Hah. If only. - 13/03/2011 07:19:18 AM 676 Views
I think all us brownish minorities - 13/03/2011 08:39:16 AM 857 Views
america: love it or give it back! - 15/03/2011 01:24:57 AM 692 Views
*NM* - 13/03/2011 03:07:25 AM 255 Views
Wow, what idiots. *NM* - 13/03/2011 03:33:05 AM 270 Views
I would collect money to have them sterilized. *NM* - 13/03/2011 03:56:15 AM 421 Views
Where can I donate? *NM* - 13/03/2011 09:04:46 PM 280 Views
Ah, I get it now: - 13/03/2011 04:03:33 AM 813 Views
How the hell can you even read this? - 13/03/2011 05:08:47 AM 625 Views
I posted that I donated $10.. and was AMBUSHED by one of my fb friends. - 13/03/2011 05:23:14 AM 723 Views
did you unfriend him? *NM* - 13/03/2011 01:18:58 PM 293 Views
I have a "friend" who is always posting religious quotes... - 13/03/2011 07:59:21 PM 852 Views
I lack your restraint. - 14/03/2011 12:58:20 AM 630 Views
I have one of those, too. - 14/03/2011 02:11:45 AM 651 Views
I have a friend who posted something like that after the Haiti Quake - 14/03/2011 03:33:34 AM 766 Views
that is what the hide feature is for - 14/03/2011 04:11:26 AM 616 Views
Yeah, I'm about there with her. *NM* - 15/03/2011 12:29:14 AM 317 Views
I wouldn't have been able not to reply - 14/03/2011 12:04:00 PM 976 Views
I doubt many of those people even remember Pearl Harbor - 13/03/2011 01:17:41 PM 813 Views
Too true. - 14/03/2011 12:30:32 AM 659 Views
Yup. Unfortunately, some people are just assholes. *NM* - 14/03/2011 03:30:54 AM 289 Views
It annoys me, but - 13/03/2011 03:08:51 PM 796 Views
And I always thought the atomic bombs were related to PH. - 13/03/2011 09:53:28 PM 646 Views
Nah, we just really hate sushi. *NM* - 14/03/2011 07:29:40 AM 251 Views
Re: Any society. - 14/03/2011 02:48:03 AM 855 Views
Atheists don't ever have twisted senses of justice? I must know quite a few believers in denial. - 14/03/2011 07:35:13 AM 639 Views
I think the point was that atheists don't tend to believe in divine retribution. *NM* - 14/03/2011 08:22:00 AM 287 Views
This is true. - 14/03/2011 05:50:11 PM 698 Views
Re: This is true. - 14/03/2011 05:51:45 PM 847 Views
Re: Counting - 15/03/2011 01:26:37 AM 814 Views
Religion throwdown? In this thread? Was not expecting it, but okay. - 15/03/2011 06:33:32 AM 857 Views
Unreal. - 15/03/2011 03:02:05 PM 687 Views

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