Gah. "Someone is wrong on the internet!", and all that, and I can't resist.
Legolas Send a noteboard - 06/02/2011 12:34:59 AM
No, Lebanon isn't Syria; my bad. Although Syria's been trying to "fix" that for decades no matter how many bodies it takes, and with Hezbollah in charge now they may have largely accomplished it, at least for the moment; I'll hope you'll excuse me if I don't expect Lebanon to sprout women in bikinis tomorrow or celebrate because Hezbollahs had a majority for a few weeks without imposing Sharia law.
Seriously, Joel, I don't want to be insulting, but could you just do some background reading and investigating about the country in question before making statements like that? Lebanon HAS women in bikini, and has had them for a long time. Sure, the most liberated women are generally Christian ones, but when you know Hezbollah's current government only exists by the grace of their Christian allies, you realize that things are not so simple, and that it isn't "Christians vs. Muslims" by any means.
And Syria, too, actually ranks among the most secular countries in the Middle East - among the safest to walk around in for lone travelers, male or female, as well. Yes, the Syrian government has strong ties to Hezbollah, but that doesn't mean it's Islamist.
And since you mention "imposing Sharia law", allow me to debunk the view a lot of people - certainly not just you - seem to have of that issue. They seem to think that either one has "Sharia law" in a country, or one does not, as if a country can switch from a completely Sharia-based law system to a completely non-Sharia-based one just like that. That's a fairly silly view, as I'm sure you can see. It's not as if there is even a single all-encompassing Sharia system that you could impose. There are religious laws on a huge number of issues that are called "Sharia" - on some issues there is more or less consensus, on others there are several different mutually exclusive views. But in all of the countries of the Middle East and the rest of the Islamic world, the law system is based on a number of influences, among which Sharia is merely one.
Obviously if Islamists take over a country, like they did in Iran, they can base more and more laws on the Sharia, which is presumably what you meant, but to talk of "imposing Sharia law" like you'd talk of "imposing martial law" makes no sense.
The bottom line in all this is that whether or not anyone wants to admit a religious basis (most of that is just a rallying point for deeply religious people who might not otherwise support militance) DEMOCRACY is at or near the top of the list of "Western" values viewed with such disgust by most of the popular uprisings. Expecting them to PRODUCE democracy is like expecting Robespierre to crown the Pope King of France. The BEST I think we can hope for in most cases is a mostly non-violent theocracy, but since the same groups pushing for theocracies against secular nationalist governments are provincially conservative to the point of condoning and encouraging violence as penalty for transgressing religious laws even that might be unduly optimistic.
What nonsense. These popular uprisings are all occurring in dictatorships and aimed at said dictatorships. Of course there are different views among the protesters about what kind of government there should be instead, but making blanket statements like that about them "viewing democracy with disgust" is ridiculous. Some of those protesters - more in some countries than in others, no doubt - are liberal even by Western standards, and don't view any "Western values" with disgust, or it'd have to be the "value" of supporting dictatorships for reasons of Realpolitik. Some are radical Islamists who do indeed say that they don't want democracy. And the majority, as usual, is somewhere in between - wanting democracy, and freedom, but not necessarily in the American or European style.
Egypt IS different than the rest of the Mid-East though; one of the oldest civilizations on the planet and a center of culture and learning for millennia, with strong if not always friendly Western ties. It may be that Egyptians as a whole can resist the surge the pull of theocracy, but if it does it will be the exception rather than the rule. Still and so, if the only brutally repressive regimes overthrown in the region wide grass roots democracy drive are pro-Western ones, while equally brutal but anti-Western tyrants in, say, Iran, grow stronger, is it really about democracy or just about expelling the Western influences of which democracy is chief?
Is your memory so short? Have you already forgotten what happened in Iran just a few years ago? There are various reasons why it's more successful in Tunisia and possibly in Egypt than it was in Iran, but you can't close your eyes to the desire of a large part of the Iranian people to have a free democracy.
/Media: Guardian's take on funny Americans' take on Egypt
03/02/2011 09:32:52 PM
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I think you should replace "Fox" by "funny Americans".
03/02/2011 09:44:26 PM
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Pfft. Synonyms.
03/02/2011 09:46:42 PM
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Well, you'll get accusations and sour reactions anyway.
03/02/2011 09:50:28 PM
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Re: Well, you'll get accusations and sour reactions anyway.
03/02/2011 09:52:20 PM
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This is true. We'll just have to leave it to Glenn Beck to provide the poetry, now. *NM*
03/02/2011 09:54:59 PM
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Re: Pfft. Synonyms.
03/02/2011 09:51:30 PM
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Re: Pfft. Synonyms.
03/02/2011 09:52:56 PM
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Re: Pfft. Synonyms.
03/02/2011 09:56:34 PM
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That leads to the interesting question of how you define "anti-American".
03/02/2011 09:54:13 PM
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Re: That leads to the interesting question of how you define "anti-American".
03/02/2011 10:21:56 PM
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I think you should replace "funny Americans" with "blowhard pundits who don't deserve time of day" *NM*
04/02/2011 12:28:22 AM
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I posted earlier with observations on how idiotic Fox is sounding generally on the Egypt situation.
04/02/2011 02:15:23 AM
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I saw Guardian use the phrase balanced coverage and stopped
04/02/2011 06:20:31 PM
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You always do this.
05/02/2011 01:28:11 AM
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It is the irony I find funny
07/02/2011 04:03:38 PM
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That after watching that you think the GUARDIAN'S the one over the top here?
08/02/2011 04:02:04 PM
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sorry the Guardian is shit
08/02/2011 04:21:09 PM
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Maybe, but I'll need evidence; regardless, that's not what this is about, is it?
08/02/2011 04:48:06 PM
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Oh, is Beck a "socialism fan favor[ing] the violent dicator since he can bring order and subsidies"?
05/02/2011 08:04:17 AM
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So you are saying you have a lot in common with Glen Beck?
07/02/2011 04:04:41 PM
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Not really.
08/02/2011 03:46:10 PM
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it is easy to understand why Beck wants to defend Mubarak
08/02/2011 04:23:11 PM
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By the Grace of God, Glenn Beck and Alex Jones do not represent America, or even most of the right.
05/02/2011 08:30:26 AM
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Did find this linked article at your link interesting:
05/02/2011 09:02:44 AM
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Been over all of this before, so I'll just point out that Lebanon is not Syria. *NM*
05/02/2011 07:20:10 PM
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Oops....
06/02/2011 12:03:27 AM
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Gah. "Someone is wrong on the internet!", and all that, and I can't resist.
06/02/2011 12:34:59 AM
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I know that feeling well.
06/02/2011 01:50:41 AM
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America shouldn't take the blame for Fox! That's Rupert Murdoch's, the Aussie's, fault! *NM*
06/02/2011 03:16:04 AM
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