No, Lebanon isn't Syria; my bad. Although Syria's been trying to "fix" that for decades no matter how many bodies it takes, and with Hezbollah in charge now they may have largely accomplished it, at least for the moment; I'll hope you'll excuse me if I don't expect Lebanon to sprout women in bikinis tomorrow or celebrate because Hezbollahs had a majority for a few weeks without imposing Sharia law.
The bottom line is that whether or not anyone wants to admit a religious basis (most of that is just a rallying point for deeply religious people who might not otherwise support militance) DEMOCRACY is at or near the top of "Western" values viewed with such disgust by most of the popular uprisings. Expecting them to PRODUCE democracy is like expecting Robespierre to crown the Pope King of France. The BEST I think we can hope for in most cases is a mostly non-violent theocracy, but since the same groups pushing for theocracies against secular nationalist governments are provincially conservative to the point of condoning and encouraging violence as penalty for transgressing religious laws, even that might be unduly optimistic.
Egypt IS different than the rest of the Mid-East though; one of the oldest civilizations on the planet and a center of culture and learning for millennia, with strong if not always friendly Western ties. It may be that Egyptians as a whole can resist the pull of theocracy, but it will be the exception rather than the rule if so. If the only brutally repressive regimes overthrown in the region wide grass roots democracy drive are pro-Western ones, while equally brutal but anti-Western tyrants in, say, Iran, grow stronger, is it really about democracy or just about expelling the Western influences of which democracy is chief?
The bottom line is that whether or not anyone wants to admit a religious basis (most of that is just a rallying point for deeply religious people who might not otherwise support militance) DEMOCRACY is at or near the top of "Western" values viewed with such disgust by most of the popular uprisings. Expecting them to PRODUCE democracy is like expecting Robespierre to crown the Pope King of France. The BEST I think we can hope for in most cases is a mostly non-violent theocracy, but since the same groups pushing for theocracies against secular nationalist governments are provincially conservative to the point of condoning and encouraging violence as penalty for transgressing religious laws, even that might be unduly optimistic.
Egypt IS different than the rest of the Mid-East though; one of the oldest civilizations on the planet and a center of culture and learning for millennia, with strong if not always friendly Western ties. It may be that Egyptians as a whole can resist the pull of theocracy, but it will be the exception rather than the rule if so. If the only brutally repressive regimes overthrown in the region wide grass roots democracy drive are pro-Western ones, while equally brutal but anti-Western tyrants in, say, Iran, grow stronger, is it really about democracy or just about expelling the Western influences of which democracy is chief?
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 06/02/2011 at 12:20:37 AM
/Media: Guardian's take on funny Americans' take on Egypt
03/02/2011 09:32:52 PM
- 1135 Views
I think you should replace "Fox" by "funny Americans".
03/02/2011 09:44:26 PM
- 769 Views
Pfft. Synonyms.
03/02/2011 09:46:42 PM
- 747 Views
Well, you'll get accusations and sour reactions anyway.
03/02/2011 09:50:28 PM
- 617 Views
Re: Well, you'll get accusations and sour reactions anyway.
03/02/2011 09:52:20 PM
- 777 Views
This is true. We'll just have to leave it to Glenn Beck to provide the poetry, now. *NM*
03/02/2011 09:54:59 PM
- 288 Views
Re: Pfft. Synonyms.
03/02/2011 09:51:30 PM
- 689 Views
Re: Pfft. Synonyms.
03/02/2011 09:52:56 PM
- 708 Views
Re: Pfft. Synonyms.
03/02/2011 09:56:34 PM
- 729 Views
That leads to the interesting question of how you define "anti-American".
03/02/2011 09:54:13 PM
- 683 Views
Re: That leads to the interesting question of how you define "anti-American".
03/02/2011 10:21:56 PM
- 741 Views
I think you should replace "funny Americans" with "blowhard pundits who don't deserve time of day" *NM*
04/02/2011 12:28:22 AM
- 286 Views
I posted earlier with observations on how idiotic Fox is sounding generally on the Egypt situation.
04/02/2011 02:15:23 AM
- 862 Views
I saw Guardian use the phrase balanced coverage and stopped
04/02/2011 06:20:31 PM
- 702 Views
You always do this.
05/02/2011 01:28:11 AM
- 723 Views
It is the irony I find funny
07/02/2011 04:03:38 PM
- 637 Views
That after watching that you think the GUARDIAN'S the one over the top here?
08/02/2011 04:02:04 PM
- 581 Views
sorry the Guardian is shit
08/02/2011 04:21:09 PM
- 676 Views
Maybe, but I'll need evidence; regardless, that's not what this is about, is it?
08/02/2011 04:48:06 PM
- 682 Views
Oh, is Beck a "socialism fan favor[ing] the violent dicator since he can bring order and subsidies"?
05/02/2011 08:04:17 AM
- 845 Views
So you are saying you have a lot in common with Glen Beck?
07/02/2011 04:04:41 PM
- 782 Views
Not really.
08/02/2011 03:46:10 PM
- 748 Views
it is easy to understand why Beck wants to defend Mubarak
08/02/2011 04:23:11 PM
- 2145 Views
By the Grace of God, Glenn Beck and Alex Jones do not represent America, or even most of the right.
05/02/2011 08:30:26 AM
- 750 Views
Did find this linked article at your link interesting:
05/02/2011 09:02:44 AM
- 908 Views
Been over all of this before, so I'll just point out that Lebanon is not Syria. *NM*
05/02/2011 07:20:10 PM
- 357 Views
Oops....
06/02/2011 12:03:27 AM
- 817 Views
Gah. "Someone is wrong on the internet!", and all that, and I can't resist.
06/02/2011 12:34:59 AM
- 817 Views
I know that feeling well.
06/02/2011 01:50:41 AM
- 683 Views
America shouldn't take the blame for Fox! That's Rupert Murdoch's, the Aussie's, fault! *NM*
06/02/2011 03:16:04 AM
- 319 Views