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Re: 'Cos I doubt you'll like what I have to say, for one thing. Camilla Send a noteboard - 26/01/2011 08:42:04 AM
I should have kept up on Irish politics.

Norwegian politics is boring, the only point of interest at the moment being that the newspapers and people in general have recently discovered that illegal immigrants are sometimes people with actual lives and identities, not just scary masses of Otherness, and so they want the government to make exceptions for that one person (but god forbid we make the rules more humane to begin with).

Britain...

Don't get me started.

Don't get YOU started, eh? ;)

And because I'm not knowledgeable, for another.


That is a valid reason not to opine.
I am.

If you were talking about what I think you were, however, bear in mind how often I've publicly said, regarding Americas immigration woes, that amnesty is a slap in the face to those who invest the time, money and energy to immigrate legally just because they aren't willing to introduce themselves to a new country with a criminal act. Then bear in mind that I coughed up $500 to get here, and succeeded in no small part due to indirect connections to an immigration lawyer who could literally explain the immigration laws to the woman who initially denied my visa (she actually thanked him for correcting her ignorance at one point. :rolleyes: ) Further consider that it'll be at least a year before I can even apply for university, because I need some kind of residence permit first and can't even apply for one until two weeks after next falls admissions deadline. Also consider that in my NATIVE country, if someone returns home via deportation the State Dept. revokes their passport and they'll never get another. Ever.

Now consider that, from what I'm told, someone who entered the country illegally, ignorantly or not, was made aware of her illegal status yet obtained a masters degree from the state university before declaring herself an illegal immigrant via a book that's reportedly selling quite well, and STILL THINKS SHE SHOULD BE ABLE TO STAY! In looking over the local universitys admissions process I noted a warning that limited space makes it "highly competitive", thus for all the hypothetical abstractions about illegal aliens abusing the system at taxpayer expense in America, someone who'd otherwise have received a university education here was instead denied one because someone here illegally took their spot at a taxpayer funded university. The penalty for that is a trip to Moscow and expedited legal reentry as a resident, or a lifetime without a university degree and commensurately higher earnings, depending on whom you are. What kind of hypocrite would I be if I said this is OK? If I'D pulled that the US would never allow me to leave again, let alone return to Norway. Maybe I should write a book.... :sarcasm:

Remember: I WARNED you! :P


Did you get the impression I was in favour of the popular point of view that her staying is unproblematic?

I am not one to mindlessly follow the incoherent outrage of the masses, and I thought my comment made it clear that I found it bizarre that there is such a movement to make her stay while excluding others in a similar position.

But.

There is a difference between asylum and conventional immigration. You are doing the latter. She tried the former. Conflating them does nobody any good. And I will not pretend that the Norwegian bureaucracy is flawless in dealing with the legitimacy of asylum seekers. And being generally in favour of treating people as people, not as mindless "entities" that can be reduced to a statistic, I find our treatment of asylum seekers too restrictive.

(Ironically, this whole mass movement (as I indicated in my original reply) is due to people finally seeing a previous asylum seeker as precisely an individual, which I would like them to do in all cases.)

In this particular case, I do not have anywhere near enough information to take an unequivocal position. There are definite indications that the family was in serious danger, and that it was politically motivated, but that Norwegian immigration authorities failed to recognise that.

If so, that makes the staying illegally much more understandable, and I would much rather an illegal immigrant take a university education than turn to crime.

Whoever told you getting into the local university is hard was ... exaggerating. You pretty much only need to have passed high school.
*MySmiley*
structured procrastinator
This message last edited by Camilla on 26/01/2011 at 08:43:06 AM
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So the Irish government has basically imploded. Stephen - 23/01/2011 04:47:10 PM 1530 Views
I am now confused Camilla - 23/01/2011 05:34:31 PM 898 Views
You won't be the only person Stephen - 23/01/2011 06:21:23 PM 823 Views
You do realize Britain is pretty much the envy of the Western world at the moment? Legolas - 23/01/2011 06:27:05 PM 951 Views
Re: You do realize Britain is pretty much the envy of the Western world at the moment? Camilla - 23/01/2011 06:34:47 PM 874 Views
I did. There was more violence than in ours, that's true (ours have none so far, knock on wood). Legolas - 23/01/2011 06:41:34 PM 854 Views
Re: I did. There was more violence than in ours, that's true (ours have none so far, knock on wood). Camilla - 23/01/2011 06:43:41 PM 791 Views
Those protests were only violent by British standards. Tim - 23/01/2011 11:54:15 PM 861 Views
Really? Camilla - 24/01/2011 12:03:38 AM 750 Views
But... Wibble - 24/01/2011 07:28:17 PM 831 Views
Re: But... Camilla - 24/01/2011 07:30:39 PM 1084 Views
What protests? Wibble - 24/01/2011 07:26:49 PM 894 Views
Re: What protests? Camilla - 24/01/2011 07:28:40 PM 770 Views
Re: What protests? Nebhead - 25/01/2011 09:23:17 AM 894 Views
There's a new objection Camilla - 25/01/2011 11:38:25 AM 832 Views
I didn't object... Nebhead - 25/01/2011 11:47:11 AM 720 Views
Re: I didn't object... Camilla - 25/01/2011 11:49:36 AM 678 Views
If you look at the bottom of that list... Nebhead - 25/01/2011 11:58:24 AM 757 Views
And Britain had to live with the Conservative Wilderness for 15 years before it could get there *NM* Roland00 - 24/01/2011 02:43:16 AM 430 Views
Should I start chiming in on Norwegian politics now that I'm here...? Joel - 24/01/2011 12:42:03 AM 720 Views
Why not? Camilla - 24/01/2011 08:49:07 AM 859 Views
'Cos I doubt you'll like what I have to say, for one thing. Joel - 26/01/2011 01:55:13 AM 857 Views
Re: 'Cos I doubt you'll like what I have to say, for one thing. Camilla - 26/01/2011 08:42:04 AM 915 Views
I misconstrued your sarcasm, sorry. Joel - 26/01/2011 10:23:40 AM 1058 Views
That's been a while coming, hasn't it? Cowen seems to be losing it. Legolas - 23/01/2011 05:48:30 PM 839 Views
Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Stephen - 23/01/2011 06:27:27 PM 902 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Legolas - 23/01/2011 06:33:26 PM 854 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Stephen - 23/01/2011 07:19:03 PM 948 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Legolas - 23/01/2011 07:57:05 PM 808 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Stephen - 23/01/2011 09:29:03 PM 907 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Legolas - 23/01/2011 09:46:20 PM 865 Views
I think Adams is an Irish citizen, and not a British one. Tim - 23/01/2011 11:45:34 PM 823 Views
Re: I think Adams is an Irish citizen, and not a British one. Stephen - 23/01/2011 11:53:12 PM 828 Views
The part that I find strange is... Tim - 23/01/2011 11:58:27 PM 781 Views
Re: Certainly. he's been on dodgy ground for a couple months. Stephen - 23/01/2011 11:45:39 PM 709 Views
I found out something else today which makes it even better. Tim - 24/01/2011 10:37:45 PM 979 Views
I was reading your post and going "what about the Chiltern Hundreds"? Legolas - 24/01/2011 10:44:32 PM 831 Views
Today's news: it got better again! Tim - 26/01/2011 07:51:51 PM 866 Views
Oh, alternatively we could elevate him to the House of Lords. Tim - 26/01/2011 11:08:44 PM 841 Views
Awesome idea. Something like "Baron Adams of Londonderry", I'm thinking. *NM* Legolas - 27/01/2011 07:54:26 PM 416 Views
We made his arch-rival a Lord, after all, so it would only be fair. Tim - 28/01/2011 08:26:15 AM 777 Views
"This is the voice of a life peer" Michael - 28/01/2011 02:18:04 PM 908 Views
Here you go Elaine - 25/01/2011 12:55:33 PM 921 Views
That's the site I found too. Tim - 25/01/2011 01:25:56 PM 781 Views
Right. Elaine - 25/01/2011 01:42:49 PM 986 Views
well, the only interesting thing in swedish politics is a wikileaks document and the reactions... jh - 23/01/2011 06:21:00 PM 898 Views
That's interesting Stephen - 23/01/2011 06:32:05 PM 874 Views
What is inappropriate about trying to keep out barbaric unskilled people? Tom - 23/01/2011 10:59:53 PM 852 Views
The inappropriateness is the generalisation in the claim Camilla - 23/01/2011 11:16:52 PM 830 Views
Generalizations are inappropriate when they are disproven by statistics, and appropriate when proven Tom - 24/01/2011 07:33:14 PM 786 Views
I've looked into the statistics a bit more. Tom - 24/01/2011 09:11:52 PM 804 Views
I take it you're talking about the Middle East in its most narrow sense here. Legolas - 24/01/2011 09:56:22 PM 847 Views
... the fact that they are asylum seekers, and their skill certainly shouldn't matter in that case. jh - 24/01/2011 07:08:14 PM 732 Views
Schweden schafft sich ab, eh? Tom - 24/01/2011 07:31:33 PM 996 Views
Not to mention... ßelals Girl - 26/01/2011 07:55:26 PM 716 Views
ßelals Girl - 26/01/2011 07:46:19 PM 825 Views
Hopefully they'll stop using Irish officially as a way to cut down on unnecessary costs. Tom - 23/01/2011 10:57:08 PM 776 Views
I'd support that Stephen - 23/01/2011 11:26:20 PM 847 Views
Ironically, if you de-officialised Irish you could get EU money to help preserve it. Tim - 23/01/2011 11:48:14 PM 758 Views
I never realised that Stephen - 23/01/2011 11:54:43 PM 785 Views
But why, why? Tom - 24/01/2011 08:35:43 PM 744 Views
Because it's the only thing justifying their insistence they're not British? Legolas - 24/01/2011 10:03:54 PM 796 Views
But all language learning should be purely voluntary (after what parents teach their children). Tom - 25/01/2011 03:05:28 AM 779 Views
What, so you don't think students in high school should be taught foreign languages? Legolas - 25/01/2011 06:34:21 PM 750 Views
Irish is the mother tongue of about 7,000-15,000 people at most. Tom - 26/01/2011 05:04:00 AM 821 Views
Wikipedia says it's more like 40k-80k. Legolas - 26/01/2011 06:41:41 PM 1192 Views
And Elaine, Stephen, or any other Irish people here: do feel free to comment. *NM* Legolas - 26/01/2011 06:42:36 PM 433 Views
Inflated statistics from what I've read. Tom - 26/01/2011 09:45:51 PM 756 Views
They might be, indeed. Elaine - 27/01/2011 01:08:09 PM 976 Views
More to the point, are YOU interested in learning Irish? Tom - 26/01/2011 05:15:18 AM 729 Views
Calling Ireland the new Sodom and Gomorrah, are you? Legolas - 26/01/2011 06:02:05 PM 890 Views
I don't think it's as fun as Sodom and Gomorrah, at least not post-crisis. Tom - 26/01/2011 09:48:54 PM 850 Views
Re: I don't think it's as fun as Sodom and Gomorrah, at least not post-crisis. Legolas - 27/01/2011 08:42:21 PM 708 Views
Presumably because they agree with J.R.R. Tolkien and Tómas Sæmundsson about language's importance. Tim - 24/01/2011 10:16:05 PM 890 Views
So Australians and New Zealanders are really English then? Austrians are just Germans? Tom - 25/01/2011 03:01:14 AM 851 Views
I never said I agreed . Tim - 25/01/2011 08:19:11 AM 821 Views
I would suggest that a distinct dialect does the job just as well majander - 25/01/2011 02:23:59 PM 834 Views
That's a very good point. Tom - 26/01/2011 05:06:32 AM 811 Views
Indeed. Legolas - 26/01/2011 06:06:00 PM 885 Views
The thing is, people who feel really strongly about that usually insist it's a separate language. Tim - 28/01/2011 04:20:57 PM 699 Views
It's really more about having a unique silly costume to wear at Miss Universe pageants. Tom - 26/01/2011 05:09:10 AM 689 Views
You're confusing what we sell to gullible American tourists with what we actually value . *NM* Tim - 28/01/2011 04:15:01 PM 368 Views
What the hell happened to the Celtic Tiger Country? *NM* Blaine - 24/01/2011 05:47:12 AM 465 Views
Thrown away on bling and tat, unfortunately. Elaine - 24/01/2011 01:01:27 PM 707 Views
The Celtic Tiger is dead, Ireland had a GDP contraction of 14% in the last two years. Roland00 - 24/01/2011 01:47:06 PM 801 Views
It's still there, but it aimed a bit too high and got a bit scorched. Legolas - 24/01/2011 10:07:36 PM 677 Views
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