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So once you sit down and have a heart to heart with your client an discover that he is simply evil.. Shannow Send a noteboard - 13/01/2011 07:30:53 PM
Indeed. Their notoriety must have made it difficult to ensure a fair trial.


Is it still virtuous to try and defend him with all your heart, to try and find any loophole or any dodgy "expert" who might be able to get him declared insane, or acting under diminished responsibility, or to find some reason why the trial was unfair?

Let's put it another way.

If you KNOW your client is guilty of premeditated murder, but you find some way to get his sentence reduced to just 20 years, or just 10 years or even just 1 year under mental observation (I'm talking hypothetically here), is it still your duty to try and get the most advantageous result possible for him?

In that case the legal profession must the one of the most evil in existence.

This message last edited by Shannow on 13/01/2011 at 07:33:12 PM
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What motivates someone to pull out all the stops defending the Arizona shooter in court? Shannow - 13/01/2011 06:46:14 PM 1588 Views
Because even the guilty are entitled to a full and proper defence. Rebekah - 13/01/2011 06:58:51 PM 1024 Views
A belief in everyone's right to a defense? *NM* Camilla - 13/01/2011 07:02:24 PM 532 Views
Isn't it a little strange... Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:08:49 PM 1120 Views
I don't know anything about the woman or the people she has defended before Camilla - 13/01/2011 07:10:56 PM 976 Views
Timothy Mcveigh, Eric Rudolph, Theodore Kazynski, Zacharias Moussai, Susan Smith... Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:16:07 PM 1146 Views
All of these strike me as people who might not get a fair hearing. Camilla - 13/01/2011 07:18:24 PM 1059 Views
Re: All of these strike me as people who might not get a fair hearing. Rebekah - 13/01/2011 07:23:15 PM 939 Views
So once you sit down and have a heart to heart with your client an discover that he is simply evil.. Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:30:53 PM 1160 Views
My god, man, take an ethics class. Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 07:37:16 PM 981 Views
So by your ethics... Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:40:36 PM 1141 Views
If he can't be defended he can't be tried and thus he can't be convicted. Rebekah - 13/01/2011 07:44:57 PM 1162 Views
I suspect he disparages "technicalities" as well. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 07:48:14 PM 487 Views
some techincalites deserve it random thoughts - 13/01/2011 08:01:26 PM 998 Views
True. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 08:54:25 PM 485 Views
How is justice served if the accused has no defense? *NM* Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 07:47:01 PM 495 Views
Who said she sought out anyone? everynametaken - 14/01/2011 01:29:38 AM 1014 Views
Maybe he IS insane ßelals Girl - 13/01/2011 07:17:46 PM 1044 Views
So what if he is? Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:11:44 AM 932 Views
No, it doesn't change what he did. Rebekah - 14/01/2011 06:22:06 PM 997 Views
Plus ßelals Girl - 14/01/2011 08:05:36 PM 1071 Views
Capital punishment is more expensive than life in prison. Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 07:34:29 PM 1119 Views
So in other words out of self interest I should admire her? Now THAT's evil... Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:38:36 PM 1183 Views
Ghavrel - 13/01/2011 07:40:42 PM 953 Views
Re: Shannow - 13/01/2011 07:49:56 PM 1081 Views
That's a critique of Lawyers, not a critique of Rule of Law. Dan - 13/01/2011 08:37:20 PM 1092 Views
Do you know what happened before there were defence lawyers for all accused? *NM* Camilla - 13/01/2011 10:37:55 PM 523 Views
Do you believe the severity of the crime should affect your defense? random thoughts - 13/01/2011 07:45:16 PM 1004 Views
No. Shannow - 13/01/2011 08:44:05 PM 1229 Views
How do you decide if it was "in cold blood" or not? Sareitha Sedai - 13/01/2011 08:49:06 PM 1034 Views
Have you any way to back up this statement? Stephen - 13/01/2011 08:49:41 PM 1006 Views
The difference... Shannow - 13/01/2011 08:57:45 PM 1100 Views
How would you know he was the guy that stole the horse? *NM* Chas - 14/01/2011 11:32:15 PM 524 Views
re: Macharius - 13/01/2011 09:09:05 PM 980 Views
I just get a sense that those principles are worshipped more than the cause they supposedly serve... Shannow - 13/01/2011 09:19:59 PM 1006 Views
The principles and the cause they serve are the same. Macharius - 14/01/2011 02:13:43 PM 968 Views
Take a look at the part of the world who still use the villiage elder system random thoughts - 13/01/2011 09:36:18 PM 911 Views
That is one effed up world that I would not want to live in. *NM* Aeryn - 14/01/2011 01:42:34 AM 504 Views
random thoughts is right. Joel - 14/01/2011 02:42:38 AM 1248 Views
the belief that for the system to work everyone needs vigorous defense random thoughts - 13/01/2011 07:37:40 PM 985 Views
You managed to cover all three of my answers; +1. Joel - 14/01/2011 12:29:21 AM 1028 Views
Yes, exactly. And in fewer words than I'd have used. *NM* newyorkersedai - 15/01/2011 02:10:03 PM 659 Views
Probably a bunch of reasons beetnemesis - 13/01/2011 07:39:58 PM 995 Views
A belief in justice Stephen - 13/01/2011 08:24:25 PM 1121 Views
Personally, I don't see why being insane should excuse anything... Shannow - 13/01/2011 08:29:25 PM 1133 Views
It's a good thing you don't get to write the laws then Stephen - 13/01/2011 08:45:39 PM 1051 Views
Being insane doesn't excuse anything. Sareitha Sedai - 13/01/2011 08:45:40 PM 1162 Views
Fame and money Wulf`gar - 13/01/2011 09:15:38 PM 933 Views
Many possible reasons. Tim - 13/01/2011 10:41:30 PM 1089 Views
Well said. *NM* Camilla - 13/01/2011 11:30:54 PM 561 Views
Oh, and I forgot one very important thing. Tim - 13/01/2011 11:33:33 PM 928 Views
He should have been shot in the street like a dog. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:09:38 AM 934 Views
Vengeance is not justice. *NM* Macharius - 14/01/2011 01:13:04 AM 492 Views
If the person is guilty, it's one in the same. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:17:54 AM 897 Views
No, it's not: their definitions and concepts are entirely different. Macharius - 14/01/2011 02:27:13 PM 1021 Views
Can`t consume blood, actually. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 04:10:57 PM 989 Views
well im so glad you find this situation to be so simple Aisha - 16/01/2011 03:45:52 AM 962 Views
Now that was a better post. Now we can talk. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 04:54:11 AM 1110 Views
That would not be a deterrent to people who are mentally ill. *NM* everynametaken - 14/01/2011 01:25:56 AM 530 Views
By that logic nothing would. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:29:41 AM 893 Views
And by that logic, we should kill people with HIV. Dannymac - 14/01/2011 06:20:03 AM 978 Views
Not at all. We should kill people with HIV if they're spreading it knowingly. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:31:48 PM 1176 Views
then we should kill people who spread the flu as well random thoughts - 14/01/2011 04:53:51 PM 1024 Views
That's absurd. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:21:36 PM 916 Views
it is absurd and that is my point random thoughts - 14/01/2011 08:54:07 PM 1044 Views
That's not the issue. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 09:40:00 PM 977 Views
why are the different? random thoughts - 14/01/2011 10:02:06 PM 968 Views
HIV is incurable. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 07:09:47 AM 900 Views
Unless, you know, someone is deliberately spreading flu to old people or people with Chas - 15/01/2011 12:32:42 PM 952 Views
To my knowledge, no one has ever been convicted of that. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 03:32:49 PM 933 Views
People have been convicted for knowingly spreading diseases Isaac - 15/01/2011 01:05:22 PM 897 Views
you are correct that is why we need to fix our mental health system *NM* random thoughts - 14/01/2011 02:22:22 PM 521 Views
Not everyone else is doing that. So who else are you trying to deter? everynametaken - 14/01/2011 05:25:28 PM 1077 Views
Everyone. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:23:41 PM 1190 Views
gang members get killed every day by other gang members so I would say it isn't working *NM* random thoughts - 14/01/2011 08:31:29 PM 546 Views
If we were executing them publicly in the streets, maybe it would be. *NM* Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:33:30 PM 512 Views
why would you believe that? random thoughts - 14/01/2011 08:58:25 PM 981 Views
It's never been tried. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 09:40:54 PM 969 Views
So it's agreed, murderers should be given icecream. *NM* Stephen - 14/01/2011 09:43:36 PM 496 Views
did you actually read my reply where I explained that it has been tried? random thoughts - 14/01/2011 09:52:43 PM 1055 Views
Because it's not being done by the state. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 07:08:51 AM 947 Views
Yes, let's bring back the justice of the lynch mob. *NM* Aeryn - 14/01/2011 01:44:00 AM 464 Views
It is justice if the person is guilty. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:32:44 PM 872 Views
So how would you determine if the person is guilty and deserved death? Perhaps... with a lawyer? *NM* Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:05:13 AM 539 Views
No, a 5 minute trial wherein the judge watches the video of this guy killing everyone... Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 07:05:30 AM 1045 Views
What if he was a hired killer? Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:19:12 PM 904 Views
They're pretty certain he worked alone. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 08:00:42 PM 953 Views
Also, did you see My Cousin Vinny? Aeryn - 15/01/2011 06:23:51 PM 989 Views
In this case, I'll risk it. *NM* Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 08:02:10 PM 489 Views
non occides, indeed. *NM* Ghavrel - 14/01/2011 02:37:29 AM 479 Views
Because he has absolutely no right to the laws dictated in the U.S. Constitution. Great Lord of Chaos - 14/01/2011 03:20:58 AM 1119 Views
The Constitution shouldn't protect these people. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:34:19 PM 911 Views
14th amendment -- equal protection clause. thanks for playing! moondog - 14/01/2011 04:22:17 PM 999 Views
I'm not an American. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:27:52 PM 1088 Views
And believe me, that shows in more than where you were born. *NM* Ghavrel - 14/01/2011 11:28:28 PM 492 Views
If that's supposed to be an insult... Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 07:03:10 AM 960 Views
How do you determine if someone gets Constitutional protection or not? ßelals Girl - 14/01/2011 08:10:45 PM 970 Views
If someone is guilty beyond the shadow of a doubt... Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:26:36 PM 967 Views
He has a reasonable defense. Great Lord of Chaos - 14/01/2011 11:21:47 PM 1089 Views
I disagree. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 07:04:38 AM 1102 Views
That's preposterous. Great Lord of Chaos - 15/01/2011 10:42:04 PM 949 Views
He's not retarded, he's insane. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 12:28:45 AM 940 Views
Both are maladies that affect the mind and reasoning processes. Great Lord of Chaos - 16/01/2011 02:05:53 AM 986 Views
Then insane still have to pay for what they've done. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 02:53:47 AM 941 Views
There's a little flaw in your connection. Great Lord of Chaos - 16/01/2011 03:14:36 AM 941 Views
Again, I disagree. Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 04:47:08 AM 1506 Views
Just because that's your opinion, doesn't mean that's applicable. Great Lord of Chaos - 17/01/2011 03:07:47 AM 1036 Views
Uh...I never argued that it should. Dragonsoul - 17/01/2011 03:33:43 AM 1220 Views
I wonder what the reaction would be if Michael Vick said that. Dannymac - 14/01/2011 06:18:00 AM 910 Views
That's absurd. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 01:35:16 PM 801 Views
yes because threat of death works so well on the insane random thoughts - 14/01/2011 02:21:42 PM 981 Views
I`ve addressed this already. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 04:08:28 PM 902 Views
no you admitted it wouldn't deter them random thoughts - 14/01/2011 05:03:24 PM 975 Views
Re: no you admitted it wouldn't deter them j-whitt987 - 14/01/2011 06:55:22 PM 1142 Views
no random thoughts - 14/01/2011 07:15:11 PM 997 Views
Re: no j-whitt987 - 14/01/2011 07:35:07 PM 1002 Views
We recently put a man to death in Texas who was very likely innocent random thoughts - 14/01/2011 09:24:04 PM 849 Views
Just as an aside... I suppose you have no problem with Muslims cutting off the hand of a thief? everynametaken - 14/01/2011 05:30:50 PM 1019 Views
I invite you to show me where I've criticized the Islamic legal system. Dragonsoul - 14/01/2011 08:36:22 PM 1023 Views
OK. everynametaken - 15/01/2011 04:40:56 PM 1022 Views
I really don't care what Muslims do to each other. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 05:28:52 PM 923 Views
Actually castrating or chemically castrating? Rebekah - 15/01/2011 05:33:07 PM 1113 Views
I don't care either way really. Dragonsoul - 15/01/2011 08:03:01 PM 882 Views
i believe in the laws and ideals this country is based on Aisha - 16/01/2011 03:41:13 AM 1084 Views
And you felt the need to say that why? Dragonsoul - 16/01/2011 04:44:40 AM 970 Views
I find it hilarious that a clearly guilty man will be defended. Defended against what? Dark Knight - 14/01/2011 03:22:20 AM 1039 Views
I'll tell you a couple of other things that could happen. Tim - 14/01/2011 08:26:52 AM 937 Views
There are still trials when someone pleads guilty *NM* beetnemesis - 14/01/2011 06:47:56 PM 509 Views
The Thing is... vandevere - 14/01/2011 04:57:04 AM 987 Views
What motivates someone to be the Arizona shooter? snoopcester - 14/01/2011 09:51:10 AM 976 Views
I found something of interest... vandevere - 14/01/2011 06:16:40 PM 882 Views
Because the thought of people with a lynch mob mentality running the show scares them way more than Tashmere - 15/01/2011 03:56:44 AM 954 Views
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