Active Users:893 Time:22/11/2024 02:39:39 AM
In this particular case I don't disagree with you. SilverWarder Send a noteboard - 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM
I'm just choosing not to 'go there'.

I agree men and women are different and I wish society would stop trying to masquerade that they aren't. It's annoying.

I had a discussion not too long ago about male/female adrenal responses and how that might affect jobs.

The outshoot of it was that, if it should be relevent to a job, measure the appropriate desired adrenal response needed for the job and then test applicants based on that adrenal response.

Some would cry - "That might exclude some people!"

Yes - yes it would. But it would exclude them based on a needed characteristic of the job - not based on their gender.

(Note that Male and Female adrenal responses are DIFFERENT but one is not 'better' then the other - Men have faster adrenal responses - much faster, but women have adrenal responses that are much longer - essentially 'sprinters' vs. 'long distance runners' if you will.)

There are plenty of other differences too - all part of our physiological variances but the key thing to keep in mind is that there are still and always exceptions. While the average man has more upper body strength than the average woman, there are exceptional women who are stronger than average and even above average men (although not exceptional men - the physiology just isn't there for that). Those realities mean that we need to base jobs that require strength as part of it on actual job needs so that if a strong woman applies and makes the grade she has the same chances as a man, is treated the same, paid the same etc.

We also need to watch for people abusing those standards to intentionally exclude people although caution is needed there too. Sometimes the standards need to be exceedingly high for practical purposes. Our local Fire Department has over 400 applicants for every opening - as such the standards they set, both physical and for training/expertise are amazingly high. They exclude almost everyone - of either gender - just to get the applicants down to a manageable number. That's not discrimination - it's setting the standards high to winnow down the applicant pool to only the absolute best. Lives are on the line and the applicant pool is huge. They can fully afford to be picky and should be as otherwise people may die.

In fairness to them all the standards that I've ever heard about do directly apply to the job.

Fairness, ethics and commonsense are all needed. Given our current political environment, there just isn't enough of any of those to go around.
May God stand between you and harm in all the empty places you must walk.

Old Egyptian Blessing
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Looks like the feminist movement wasn't as successful as it appears - 11/01/2011 06:21:01 PM 2056 Views
I think you're extrapolating a bit too much - 11/01/2011 06:45:38 PM 1138 Views
I don't trust the figures. - 11/01/2011 06:50:24 PM 1142 Views
While I don't 100% agree with the article, some feminists annoy me no end. - 11/01/2011 06:47:03 PM 1157 Views
My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career - 11/01/2011 06:52:11 PM 1147 Views
Re: My wife told me just this weekend I need to stop pressuring her to have a career - 12/01/2011 01:36:14 AM 1144 Views
Yeah, got one like that, too. - 12/01/2011 02:17:17 AM 1133 Views
yeah prett much anything gross that isn't in a diaper is my job - 12/01/2011 05:12:11 AM 1076 Views
It's not just that choice though. - 11/01/2011 07:12:48 PM 1195 Views
It feels more hypocritical coming from feminists than "traditionalists". *NM* - 11/01/2011 07:17:24 PM 618 Views
For you maybe. - 11/01/2011 07:27:52 PM 1134 Views
there is definitely some SAHM snobbery - 11/01/2011 08:43:21 PM 1097 Views
Well. - 11/01/2011 09:34:42 PM 1169 Views
I agree. I would also like to add, if I may... - 12/01/2011 01:27:59 AM 1136 Views
all 25 of them? - 12/01/2011 05:14:56 AM 1078 Views
Pffft, look it up a bit. You might find info on the national propaganda radio (NPR) site. - 12/01/2011 12:47:33 PM 1103 Views
It's a difficult dynamic even under the best of circumstances, when both partners have chosen it. - 12/01/2011 02:25:20 PM 984 Views
I agree, it's very difficult. - 12/01/2011 03:14:59 PM 1030 Views
it is nuanced - 12/01/2011 03:06:39 PM 1053 Views
Re: it is nuanced - 12/01/2011 04:58:36 PM 1076 Views
You are spot on. As usual. About everything. *NM* - 12/01/2011 01:42:18 AM 657 Views
- 12/01/2011 02:25:59 PM 1046 Views
I have to admit that this bothers me. - 11/01/2011 07:33:09 PM 1146 Views
I don't expect people to understand my choice necessarily. - 11/01/2011 09:36:52 PM 1159 Views
In addition... - 12/01/2011 05:39:25 PM 1042 Views
I guess you think the same of me then. - 11/01/2011 09:48:31 PM 1026 Views
Another one? - 12/01/2011 06:01:43 AM 1054 Views
Re: Another one? - 12/01/2011 12:33:58 PM 1089 Views
~never mind~ *NM* *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:42:47 PM 712 Views
I'm going to answer you anyway. - 12/01/2011 04:54:18 PM 1154 Views
not to mention - 12/01/2011 05:11:42 PM 1091 Views
In addition - 12/01/2011 05:23:25 PM 1029 Views
you don't want kids? - 12/01/2011 05:46:25 PM 1044 Views
bleck - 12/01/2011 11:14:25 PM 1043 Views
again not the vibe I get from you - 12/01/2011 11:38:26 PM 1030 Views
Hehe. - 13/01/2011 12:15:06 AM 1080 Views
Not selfish. - 13/01/2011 02:45:43 AM 1042 Views
You don't have to be a doctor to contribute to the world - 12/01/2011 05:27:26 PM 1103 Views
Poor Aeryn - 12/01/2011 05:29:47 PM 1030 Views
I replied before she edited - 12/01/2011 05:41:53 PM 983 Views
Am I at least absolved from having to respond? - 15/01/2011 06:11:27 AM 1070 Views
Certainly. *NM* - 15/01/2011 09:40:09 AM 656 Views
The primary issue... - 12/01/2011 05:52:42 PM 1007 Views
*NM* - 12/01/2011 05:54:29 PM 587 Views
What Rebekah said... - 15/01/2011 07:55:34 PM 1017 Views
Me too! - 11/01/2011 09:43:57 PM 1103 Views
Re: Me too! - 12/01/2011 01:23:39 AM 1097 Views
I have a fiancee like that. - 12/01/2011 02:14:53 AM 1047 Views
I feel so fortunate to be a stay at home mom. - 12/01/2011 11:32:37 PM 1009 Views
My commentary on the whys and wherefores of this stuff would be way too politically incorrect - 11/01/2011 07:56:24 PM 1144 Views
I think all of that makes sense - 11/01/2011 08:36:39 PM 1071 Views
In this particular case I don't disagree with you. - 11/01/2011 09:28:13 PM 991 Views
I'm not sure why either sex should surpass the other in math. - 12/01/2011 02:34:09 AM 980 Views
men have more physical strength period - 12/01/2011 05:30:14 AM 1002 Views
There's a lot more to running (especially marathons) then leg strength. - 12/01/2011 05:41:11 AM 987 Views
When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 03:47:53 PM 1049 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 04:32:38 PM 964 Views
Re: When you talk about reasons men "should" be better at math - 12/01/2011 04:41:42 PM 1041 Views
Both, really; the latter is a consequence of the former. - 12/01/2011 05:21:28 PM 937 Views
I'm trying to understand your position - 12/01/2011 05:28:43 PM 995 Views
try string theory, it makes more sense than Joel logic - 12/01/2011 05:57:27 PM 955 Views
Now you've got it. - 12/01/2011 06:40:50 PM 1099 Views
Okay, that's fair. *NM* - 12/01/2011 06:42:30 PM 568 Views
Glad we were able to reach an understanding. - 13/01/2011 10:02:47 PM 989 Views
Re: I'm trying to understand your position - 13/01/2011 08:12:05 PM 1029 Views
we know the brain of women works differently then the brains of men - 12/01/2011 05:40:15 PM 1039 Views
What evidence I'm aware of seems inconclusive. - 12/01/2011 06:46:50 PM 917 Views
here is some evdience to argue that it is not society but biology - 13/01/2011 08:43:43 PM 1035 Views
I think you did like I always do and forgot to give us a way to click your link. - 13/01/2011 09:56:52 PM 1035 Views
oops - 13/01/2011 10:07:55 PM 1077 Views
Seems like that's an argument for both views, in a way. - 13/01/2011 11:14:11 PM 954 Views
You can use anything to prove what you want if you are willing to spin it hard enough - 14/01/2011 02:57:29 PM 1184 Views
I used YOUR article to "prove" what it says outright. - 15/01/2011 05:35:27 PM 1144 Views
I would also like to say this: - 11/01/2011 09:33:23 PM 1018 Views
Of course - 12/01/2011 01:47:14 AM 1053 Views
Re: Of course - 12/01/2011 04:57:11 PM 1043 Views
"Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. - 12/01/2011 07:58:12 PM 1068 Views
Re: "Night" is also almost invariably feminine, in my experience. - 12/01/2011 08:15:59 PM 1045 Views
It's true for Arabic and hence, one suspects, Hebrew. - 13/01/2011 07:43:21 PM 973 Views
I'm glad YOU think it's fun... - 13/01/2011 10:05:07 PM 1017 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: - 12/01/2011 09:15:28 AM 1028 Views
Re: I would also like to say this: - 12/01/2011 12:27:14 PM 1049 Views
No - 12/01/2011 12:28:48 PM 959 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:35:56 PM 924 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:37:33 PM 1026 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:43:36 PM 1019 Views
Re: No - 12/01/2011 12:47:56 PM 1048 Views
Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 12:54:54 PM 1056 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 12:56:20 PM 1050 Views
Re: Since this has become too complicated - 12/01/2011 04:55:50 PM 993 Views
The two are used as different psychological concepts. - 12/01/2011 02:24:58 PM 1011 Views
Again, used incorrectly. - 12/01/2011 03:34:22 PM 991 Views
Re: Again, used incorrectly. - 12/01/2011 04:00:59 PM 1064 Views
Exactly. *NM* - 12/01/2011 04:53:03 PM 582 Views
It really doesn't surprise me - 12/01/2011 12:36:19 AM 1025 Views
Have you left a memo at the Feminist Movement's Office? - 12/01/2011 12:46:45 AM 1053 Views
Actually, the feminist movement was completely successful. - 12/01/2011 01:42:44 AM 1060 Views
Well put. *NM* - 12/01/2011 02:10:56 AM 571 Views
I was playing a bit but I agree that the feminist in the past accomplished a lot - 12/01/2011 05:34:04 AM 1069 Views
NOW is just a left-leaning PAC. - 12/01/2011 03:16:52 PM 1017 Views
Now if only others were so rational about it. - 17/01/2011 05:55:57 AM 2036 Views
Nevermind, Tom beat me to it. - 12/01/2011 01:54:07 AM 991 Views
Mmm. I don't think you understand the feminist movement. You have been reading to many things - 12/01/2011 01:56:20 AM 1057 Views
I was refering to groups like NOW - 12/01/2011 05:40:46 AM 992 Views
Gotcha. - 12/01/2011 11:53:29 PM 995 Views
I was being a tad bit trollish with my title - 13/01/2011 01:47:30 AM 954 Views
I'm not sure that follows, at all. - 12/01/2011 02:06:41 AM 960 Views
they never mention their study methods - 12/01/2011 02:14:15 PM 1052 Views
Gosh, look what you started. - 12/01/2011 03:00:23 PM 1046 Views
somebody need to start something it is pretty dead around here *NM* - 12/01/2011 03:16:54 PM 594 Views
Seriously *NM* - 12/01/2011 09:56:56 PM 564 Views
I agree that it would be awesome to hang with my kid every day and not have to work. - 12/01/2011 11:33:25 PM 1051 Views
that part would be great - 12/01/2011 11:40:49 PM 1011 Views
I could do it every day. - 13/01/2011 12:52:56 AM 935 Views
Me too... - 13/01/2011 02:45:49 PM 1065 Views
So here's the question. Why don't men have a "choice" to opt-out? - 15/01/2011 06:13:28 AM 1043 Views
They do. - 15/01/2011 09:42:29 AM 990 Views
read further up the thread - 15/01/2011 10:49:08 AM 1066 Views
I really wish that were more socially acceptable. - 15/01/2011 07:58:57 PM 1077 Views
I feel I have that choice. - 16/01/2011 12:08:48 AM 1003 Views
They most certainly do. - 18/01/2011 04:39:09 PM 1110 Views
This sounds awful to me. - 13/01/2011 04:27:08 AM 1021 Views
Re: This sounds awful to me. - 14/01/2011 02:47:36 AM 1040 Views
Yikes. - 14/01/2011 11:13:39 PM 1019 Views

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