If the stakes are small or there's no alternative I don't mind going with your gut.
Joel Send a noteboard - 09/01/2011 01:20:42 AM
I would also hazard a guess that a lot of the extreme reactions to my "undiplomatic" posting style come from some of you being raised this way.
I've never been shy about expressing my views on the CMB, but I miss the days when I was able to be firm and clear without being belligerent. There's such a thing as respectfully disagreeing and, while I'm not directing this at you or any other individual, picking fights is frequently symptomatic of the second thing I referenced in my own thoughts on the article: Society will never tolerate an individuals vandalism, antagonism and even violence against others. When the parental response is to protect their little darlings and assure them that's a flaw in a society that doesn't appreciate their "self expression" it both condones anti-social behavior and feeds existing rejection of social mores that lead to alienation. Put another way, it not only approves anti-social behavior, but indicting the social structure actively ENCOURAGES such behavior as an alternative to social mores deemed misguided.
So, yeah, speak your mind, fully and freely, but if disagreeing with me doesn't make you an ignorant evil SOB, disagreeing with you doesn't make me one either. Some of my worst (and, regrettably, most recent) arguments have come from dismissing people with the assumption they've taken their position based on limited and/or skewed data. The truth is, most of the big controversies exist because they're complex and uncertain enough that strong rational arguments with copious observational data can be presented for BOTH sides. That's not to say there aren't still plenty of people on both sides who form their views based on a casual examination of the evidence, but few of the truly passionate ones do; people have a habit of researching the things about which they feel strongly, even if it's tempting to simply look for more evidence we're "right" than actually examine the facts to FIND OUT what's "right".
Sometimes .. just sometimes ..
I think we over quantize things and tend to make them too complex. Terms like "copious observational data" make me cringe. All I wanted was the yellow light to be 1.5 seconds longer on that one dangerous and huge intersection. I didn't need a 5 year 6 Mill $ study and a bunch of long hairs n gray beards to dig up "copious observational data" for both sides.
Bah .. go with the gut. Saves time.
Trouble is, the small potato arguments aren't usually the ones that turn into heated multi-decade national debates. Most of the big controversies exist because they concern important issues where there's no clear simple answer but IS a lot of supporting evidence for both sides. That's why flag burning wasn't an issue for very long: Most people don't care enough to argue it long, and most people will agree that burning the American flag is as asinine as it is legal. Abortion, on the other hand, is an issue in which tens of millions are heavily invested and both sides have plenty of well thought out reasons why they feel as they do, so whether it's legal or not at any given time the issue never really goes away.
Oh .. and let kids be kids already. FFS ... what is childhood without the hazards of street football and racing bicycles on the ice? And somehow .. just somehow .. Hucm Finn didn't cause any race riots when I was a kid. It was a book we read, did a report on and moved on. NO ONE was damaged by reading the thing. FFS.
I still think people today are too apt to making child rearing a pissing contest, so no one can say a word against their precious little darlings and those perfect angels should be able to do whatever they like without parents or anyone inhibiting their freedom of expression. The sad thing is that parents who are willing to provide discipline have to constantly look over their shoulder for some busybody who'll call CPS on them for being responsible parents.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Child Psychology: Are Todays Parents Mental?
06/01/2011 11:21:53 PM
- 1128 Views
Very interesting article, thanks for posting.
07/01/2011 01:36:51 AM
- 722 Views
Welcome, and I'll pass that along to the person through whom I learned of it.
07/01/2011 02:19:07 AM
- 496 Views
I just began thinking about how my parents raised me as I was reading this.
07/01/2011 02:24:33 AM
- 625 Views
The middle way seems best; 'grats to you and your folks.
07/01/2011 06:35:50 PM
- 491 Views
Thanks Joel. And I agree with you that most of the time, the middle way is best.
07/01/2011 06:52:10 PM
- 432 Views
meh
07/01/2011 02:34:47 PM
- 636 Views
I disagree; even to the extent that's the real problem it's still down to indulgent parents.
07/01/2011 04:52:26 PM
- 694 Views
exterem paretnal involment is being overstated
08/01/2011 03:10:09 AM
- 631 Views
It's extreme indulgence, not involvement.
08/01/2011 03:44:43 AM
- 653 Views
extreme indulgence is a problem but with one exception those were not good examples
08/01/2011 04:47:05 PM
- 660 Views
"Kids need to feel badly sometimes"? What should we do? Dip their fingers in acid?
07/01/2011 03:00:17 PM
- 561 Views
It would work, and definitely put an end to all this touchy-feeliness.
07/01/2011 04:47:16 PM
- 508 Views
I would classify editing the N-word out of Huckleberry Finn to apply to this issue...
07/01/2011 11:26:05 PM
- 595 Views
"Undiplomatic" is one thing, "inflammatory" quite another.
07/01/2011 11:51:03 PM
- 522 Views
Re: "Undiplomatic" is one thing, "inflammatory" quite another.
09/01/2011 12:20:47 AM
- 624 Views
If the stakes are small or there's no alternative I don't mind going with your gut.
09/01/2011 01:20:42 AM
- 595 Views
Re: If the stakes are small or there's no alternative I don't mind going with your gut.
09/01/2011 01:28:28 AM
- 532 Views
Sadly so.
09/01/2011 01:32:23 AM
- 534 Views
Re: Sadly so.
09/01/2011 01:41:39 AM
- 478 Views
Hadn't seen that, no.
09/01/2011 11:21:20 PM
- 629 Views
Re: Hadn't seen that, no.
10/01/2011 04:59:53 PM
- 660 Views
Does M$ have U2 and Steves permission to use their names in that patent application?
10/01/2011 07:46:54 PM
- 609 Views
Re: Does M$ have U2 and Steves permission to use their names in that patent application?
10/01/2011 09:54:50 PM
- 613 Views
well your reply shows us what we end up with if we have over indulgent parnets
10/01/2011 04:08:38 PM
- 580 Views
It's a good article, but contains a bit of oversimplification.
11/01/2011 09:36:35 PM
- 572 Views
Actually, I tend to agree, 'cos I somewhat agree with rt it diagnoses symptoms better than problems
11/01/2011 11:53:48 PM
- 767 Views