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Nicely put. *NM* everynametaken Send a noteboard - 17/09/2009 01:57:44 AM
As one of my profs liked to put it, modern physics relies mostly on smacking really small objects with really fast moving objects and seeing what happens, the equivalent of "kicking a dog and seeing how loud it barks", then assuming you know all of dog-iness based off your results. Or locking a cat in a box with some poison and a radioactive material.

What gets so many religous types and/or atheists (depending on your view of atheism) is to assume science can have any effect on your belief system in a meaningful way. "Evolution disproves God" is just about the most sophmoric and philosophically lacking statement around, yet so many use that or a variaiton of that to browbeat their supposedly intellectual inferiors. It's like watching a retard fight, pardon my PC violation, or two people trying to dual each other to death with bananas in the middle of an armory.

Real scientists run the gambit on religous beliefs, and rarely bother debating them in scientific context because it's been pretty obvious for a long time that it is a totally futile conversation. Science is the study of nature, the natural universe. As it turns out, that is kind of incapable of dealing with the supernatural.

The particle for knowledge, the so-called knowledgeon and it's anti-particle, the moron, if they exist, do not interact via the current known forces, nor do the soul-on or justice-on, or any others. Current scientific theory does not require them, nor does any evidence exist for them beyond the humorous, hence they are not included in the model. However, on the other side of the coin there is no reason to think that if such concepts have some actual reality to them - like karma - that they would have mass, charge, color, etc. Most philosophers and theologians get this, so do most scientists, only a number of atheists seem locked onto the idea they can somehow disprove God this way. They snap up science like it was a hammer and try to beat the stupid out of people. Your average atheist doesn't want to admit that most atheists are atheists for reasons that have nadda to do with science, it's just their personal vehicle, they dislike organized religions especially, apparently unaware that many scientists are devout members of them.

Yeah, sure, science has it's role in these debates. Primarily for popping other people's baloons when they drag in science to support their beliefs or lack thereof. Someone starts whacking at evolution as a violation of the Laws of Thermodynamics it's legit to say "Hey, could you at least wait till the big fiery ball of increasing entropy sets for the day before spewing this stuff, I have difficulty buying into your logic while the sun is visible."

From the physicists point of view the argument is straightforward, if something doesn't interact with the universe, can't be detected, doesn't at least leave a gaping hole, than it's best to assume for calculation's purpose that it might as well not exist because it has no effect. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist though, by that logic we'd have to assume alternate timelines didn't exist (they may or may not of course) because they don't effect us and can't be detected.

Believe as you will, but avoid dragging science into it, it won't help on such things and the only thing that get's damaged in the process is science, microscopes make poor hammers to beat at walls with.
But wine was the great assassin of both tradition and propriety...
-Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings
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Do you think there's some kind of spiritual substance in the universe? - 14/09/2009 02:42:22 PM 821 Views
no, it is mostly hydrogen *NM* - 14/09/2009 02:43:47 PM 246 Views
No *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:01:32 PM 224 Views
not a chance *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:23:02 PM 233 Views
yes (in as much that we could choose to define it that way) - 14/09/2009 03:31:40 PM 614 Views
No *NM* - 14/09/2009 05:14:33 PM 226 Views
Wouldn't spiritual and substance be mutually exclusive? - 14/09/2009 05:27:09 PM 552 Views
Re: Wouldn't spiritual and substance be mutually exclusive? - 14/09/2009 06:20:45 PM 528 Views
I think there is definitely a spiritual force that underlies the unity of all things - 14/09/2009 06:11:01 PM 564 Views
That sounds very like gnosticism in many ways. - 18/09/2009 12:17:51 PM 572 Views
No. *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:06:59 PM 222 Views
define "spiritual'. - 14/09/2009 07:36:18 PM 498 Views
Rum. - 14/09/2009 08:25:46 PM 555 Views
YES! *NM* - 16/09/2009 02:10:55 PM 254 Views
How are we not married? *NM* - 19/09/2009 04:10:13 AM 230 Views
Bigamy laws. *NM* - 19/09/2009 03:49:59 PM 211 Views
My Achilles heel! *NM* - 19/09/2009 07:30:06 PM 234 Views
Timing *NM* - 21/09/2009 12:51:37 PM 224 Views
My Achilles ankle! *NM* - 21/09/2009 08:14:42 PM 241 Views
Your Face. *NM* - 21/09/2009 08:21:44 PM 223 Views
My Achilles face! - 07/10/2009 09:40:36 PM 451 Views
No *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:09:16 PM 213 Views
No *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:31:14 PM 228 Views
Yes, vodka. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:02:19 PM 212 Views
Substance? - 14/09/2009 10:08:04 PM 515 Views
Yeah, boobs. - 15/09/2009 01:51:44 AM 500 Views
Not the way I'd put it, as jh notes, but unquestionably. - 15/09/2009 03:17:22 PM 542 Views
Look, don't put words in my mouth. - 15/09/2009 04:50:13 PM 571 Views
Sorry. - 15/09/2009 05:14:10 PM 500 Views
Re: Sorry. - 17/09/2009 09:20:58 PM 473 Views
People over-complicate this, it's a sort of animal abuse - 15/09/2009 09:03:01 PM 530 Views
Nicely put. *NM* - 17/09/2009 01:57:44 AM 207 Views
Very nicely put. *NM* - 17/09/2009 06:57:57 PM 210 Views
A sublte nuance most modern materialists miss. - 18/09/2009 12:21:33 PM 751 Views
I think there may be platonic forms defining purpose - 16/09/2009 06:27:36 AM 487 Views
The material universe precludes a purely natural cause. - 18/09/2009 12:04:16 PM 621 Views
One little correction - 20/09/2009 12:34:13 AM 629 Views
Nay. - 20/09/2009 07:04:47 AM 487 Views
Re: Nay. - 07/10/2009 11:55:28 AM 544 Views

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