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I think there may be platonic forms defining purpose Sports_Gambler Send a noteboard - 16/09/2009 06:27:36 AM
See 'Platonism', the idea is that there exist abstrast 'ideals' beyond space and time - so there would be some ideals for morals/values as well. But these are not a seperate 'substance' as such (platonic ideals are abstractions).

Bear in mind that because platonic ideals are inert, they can't do anything by themselves - I think all purpose can only operate through consciousness (i.e platonic purpose exists, but it needs consciousness to manifest itself, or speaking metaphorically, God is not a force which can influence the physical world directly, instead he can only work through our own conscious awareness, he needs us to enact his essence).

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Do you think there's some kind of spiritual substance in the universe? - 14/09/2009 02:42:22 PM 821 Views
no, it is mostly hydrogen *NM* - 14/09/2009 02:43:47 PM 247 Views
No *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:01:32 PM 225 Views
not a chance *NM* - 14/09/2009 03:23:02 PM 233 Views
yes (in as much that we could choose to define it that way) - 14/09/2009 03:31:40 PM 615 Views
No *NM* - 14/09/2009 05:14:33 PM 227 Views
Wouldn't spiritual and substance be mutually exclusive? - 14/09/2009 05:27:09 PM 552 Views
Re: Wouldn't spiritual and substance be mutually exclusive? - 14/09/2009 06:20:45 PM 529 Views
I think there is definitely a spiritual force that underlies the unity of all things - 14/09/2009 06:11:01 PM 565 Views
That sounds very like gnosticism in many ways. - 18/09/2009 12:17:51 PM 573 Views
No. *NM* - 14/09/2009 07:06:59 PM 222 Views
define "spiritual'. - 14/09/2009 07:36:18 PM 499 Views
Rum. - 14/09/2009 08:25:46 PM 556 Views
YES! *NM* - 16/09/2009 02:10:55 PM 254 Views
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My Achilles face! - 07/10/2009 09:40:36 PM 452 Views
No *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:09:16 PM 213 Views
No *NM* - 14/09/2009 09:31:14 PM 229 Views
Yes, vodka. *NM* - 14/09/2009 10:02:19 PM 213 Views
Substance? - 14/09/2009 10:08:04 PM 515 Views
Yeah, boobs. - 15/09/2009 01:51:44 AM 501 Views
Not the way I'd put it, as jh notes, but unquestionably. - 15/09/2009 03:17:22 PM 542 Views
Look, don't put words in my mouth. - 15/09/2009 04:50:13 PM 572 Views
Sorry. - 15/09/2009 05:14:10 PM 501 Views
Re: Sorry. - 17/09/2009 09:20:58 PM 473 Views
People over-complicate this, it's a sort of animal abuse - 15/09/2009 09:03:01 PM 531 Views
Nicely put. *NM* - 17/09/2009 01:57:44 AM 207 Views
Very nicely put. *NM* - 17/09/2009 06:57:57 PM 211 Views
A sublte nuance most modern materialists miss. - 18/09/2009 12:21:33 PM 751 Views
I think there may be platonic forms defining purpose - 16/09/2009 06:27:36 AM 488 Views
The material universe precludes a purely natural cause. - 18/09/2009 12:04:16 PM 622 Views
One little correction - 20/09/2009 12:34:13 AM 630 Views
Nay. - 20/09/2009 07:04:47 AM 488 Views
Re: Nay. - 07/10/2009 11:55:28 AM 544 Views

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