Fair enough. I'm just a little overzealous with what I see as infringements on civil liberties.
Ghavrel Send a noteboard - 15/09/2009 01:14:48 AM
Actually that is not how it is. Public schools do not get to make up rules about what people can or can't wear. The supreme court has ruled on this repeatedly. Neither public instituions or even private franchise have the right to ban things without question, many a lawsuit - quite a few of which have been successful - have challenged these sorts of things. Schools can limit certain rights in the name of security, disruption, etc. This isn't carte blanche, there are some pretty solid guidelines about it. It as to be reasonable and even-handed, or close to it, or the ACLU wil show up.
The Supreme Court has become increasingly permissive of stupid rules. Remember Morse v. Frederick (BONG HITS 4 JESUS)? Granted, that was drug-related, but it was still ridiculously stupid, especially since it wasn't on school property. And Bethel School District v. Fraser let schools ban sexual innuendo.
In so far as it shows that right or wrong we still have no prob running cases like this all the way to the supreme court, so it encourages schools to be fairly careful about applying such rules. Let's keep in mind that Frederick ended up getting $45,000 from the school plus other stuff. Silly sign anyway.
My main objection against Frederick was the idea that because he was accross the street it was just fine, which is so much BS. Under that rationale a student could call the school from home and leave nasty messages on the machine, or use a bullhorn to scream obscenities, it would seem to fall under the same rationale as why you can't open up a porn shop across the road either, or why your neighbors can call the cops on you for blasting your stereo in your house. Though honestly I think the school seriously over-reacted and the court made a real iffy decision.
Fraser's speech was, honestly, another real borderliner, primarily IMO because if a teacher had said that crap we'd have fired them so quick they'd have bounced when they hit the pavement. Personally I thought it was a amateurish attempt at humor, and that the school went a tad overboard, but cases like these don't bug me much because I see them as pretty healthy. When our free speech rights are gettting 'tread on' by such horriblly oppresive things as a two day suspension and a ban on delivering a graduation address, I don't feel too worried. Had I been the prinicipal on that one I think I'd have just said "Nice speech, we thought it was so good we sent a copy to your mother so she could she what a great writer you are." and left it at that. Actually that's BS, as a long-winded SOB I'd probably have giving him a 20 minute lecture on the sorts of public figures who have been summarily dropped into the gaping political garbage chute because of some silly quip they or one of their supporters gave that turned out not to be as funny as they thought it was.
Of course, if I had my way we wouldn't bother having school elections, since it wastes much time and gives people the impression that they should have any say, as a student and minor with free tuition, in how things get run. I think it also tends to leave the impression that democratic processes result in electing powerless token figureheads whose qualification for office is that they are popular, which of course not how things actually work, or are supposed to, and I suspect causes a fair amount of the jaded and cynical attitude towards elections that end sup as something of a self-fullfilling prophecy... but I digress

I'd love to think that the Tinker precedent still holds, but I really don't think it does any more.
I think it holds fairly well. Note that while the schools won, they amounted to incredibly pyhrric victories that are more likely to encourage schools to be fairly reluctant to apply the rules to anything but very necessary cases, which is more or less what I think we want. Two very minor speedbumps in a pretty solid policy that's been in place four around forty years. Not too bad.
"We feel safe when we read what we recognise, what does not challenge our way of thinking.... a steady acceptance of pre-arranged patterns leads to the inability to question what we are told."
~Camilla
Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel
*MySmiley*
~Camilla
Ghavrel is Ghavrel is Ghavrel
*MySmiley*
Islam is of the Devil
06/09/2009 03:30:51 AM
- 1582 Views
This statement got me:
06/09/2009 06:30:16 AM
- 1214 Views
What you say about those places may be true
06/09/2009 02:16:30 PM
- 879 Views
Regardless...
07/09/2009 04:34:48 AM
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Re: Regardless...
07/09/2009 06:10:18 AM
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I'm not advocating the killing of Muslims.
08/09/2009 07:11:13 PM
- 960 Views
You are free to wear offensive clothing
08/09/2009 08:13:18 PM
- 907 Views
There is a difference between hatred and truth.
09/09/2009 04:04:02 PM
- 844 Views
You do know christans have done that as well don't you?
09/09/2009 06:04:28 PM
- 914 Views
The difference is...
09/09/2009 06:16:13 PM
- 821 Views
really have you actaully read the Qur'an
09/09/2009 06:33:38 PM
- 888 Views
Acrually No I don't.
09/09/2009 07:52:19 PM
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Someone should have told Jesus the OT was void
09/09/2009 10:31:39 PM
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Jesus was the one who voided it.
10/09/2009 12:25:18 AM
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Logicaly, this is a stupid post.
06/09/2009 03:58:43 PM
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As an Englishman, why are you even posting in this thread then? *NM*
07/09/2009 02:49:22 AM
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Because I can.
07/09/2009 10:15:57 AM
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So can he.
07/09/2009 07:54:56 PM
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Yes
08/09/2009 05:59:24 AM
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It means a lot in context to the situation
08/09/2009 07:14:50 PM
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No, it does not.
08/09/2009 07:20:49 PM
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So now you can tell me what I can and can't do with my children?
08/09/2009 11:31:16 PM
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I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school.
08/09/2009 11:59:21 PM
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Re: I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school.
09/09/2009 04:10:19 PM
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Re: I can tell you what you can't make your children do in school.
09/09/2009 04:27:32 PM
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Define "disruptive".
09/09/2009 06:19:36 PM
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The thing I think you are missing...
06/09/2009 07:18:45 PM
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Wait, what?
06/09/2009 08:29:14 PM
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That is why America is different than those countries. Duh. *NM*
06/09/2009 07:58:53 PM
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I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like.
08/09/2009 01:40:42 AM
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Re: I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like.
08/09/2009 07:18:00 PM
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"Their government" is the American government. *NM*
08/09/2009 07:36:27 PM
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And yet I don't see CAIR..
09/09/2009 04:07:05 PM
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Really?
08/09/2009 08:02:42 PM
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Re: I don't think I understand your basic reasoning. You can't be saying what it sounds like.
08/09/2009 11:49:48 PM
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I'm appalled that this was even worthy of note
06/09/2009 06:46:58 AM
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I believe the rest of the Church has done a horrible job explaining...
06/09/2009 08:02:25 PM
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The appropriate punishment...
07/09/2009 06:03:25 AM
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Punishment for what?
07/09/2009 09:51:57 AM
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When did I say anything about a law?
07/09/2009 10:48:09 AM
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Since were talking about the law, not your opinion of right an wrong, it's sort of a default
09/09/2009 05:01:08 PM
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Eh... I wish you were right, but I don't think you are.
10/09/2009 03:50:18 AM
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Morse isn't a bad example
10/09/2009 11:23:32 AM
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Fair enough. I'm just a little overzealous with what I see as infringements on civil liberties.
15/09/2009 01:14:48 AM
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That's the key point so many forget:
07/09/2009 11:42:12 PM
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It's not that they forget, they never 'get' to begin with
09/09/2009 07:18:09 PM
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