Can't wait to see what he says about sanctity of life next time he's in TX....
Joel Send a noteboard - 07/11/2010 08:51:41 PM
However, given the Spanish current events referenced in the article, well, really, what choice did the man have? We can (and often have) debate whether homosexuality or even abortion can be reconciled with core Christian doctrine (no, this is not an invitation to reopen those debates). There's no debate on the Roman Catholic Churchs view of each, and if the Pope remained mute on both issues during an official church visit to Spain, to consecrate a church, no less, that would just be ridiculous. He's there to sanctify the church; he can't simply ignore the fact that the country in which he's doing so has within the last five years enshrined two distinct and extreme violations of church law within its secular law.
I don't know Spanish law, but it's not the US, and certainly separation of church and state is not a widely accepted policy in Vatican City. There are many legitimate discussions to be had there, too, since Spain is under no obligation to accept any papal influence over its laws (and as a foreign head of state, whether or not everyone is willing to accept that, there's strong reason NOT to allow his influence over Spanish law). The Pope retains the title of "Christs Vicar on Earth", however, and Roman Catholic canon law is quite explicit on both points. When consecrating a church in a country where profaning a Catholic sacrament is now protected by federal law it would be irresponsible not to comment on the latter.
A responsible religious leader must walk a fine line between adhering to the principles of their faith, encouraging that adherence in others, while not trying to COMPEL that adherence from anyone. Personally, I think he did OK here; the fact is anyone who denies Europe, the West in general, has become increasingly secular in the past two century or two is simply not paying attention. Beyond that he doesn't seem to have done much more than reiterate Roman Catholic disagreement with recent changes to Spanish law, prompted by said changes and their novelty.
I don't know Spanish law, but it's not the US, and certainly separation of church and state is not a widely accepted policy in Vatican City. There are many legitimate discussions to be had there, too, since Spain is under no obligation to accept any papal influence over its laws (and as a foreign head of state, whether or not everyone is willing to accept that, there's strong reason NOT to allow his influence over Spanish law). The Pope retains the title of "Christs Vicar on Earth", however, and Roman Catholic canon law is quite explicit on both points. When consecrating a church in a country where profaning a Catholic sacrament is now protected by federal law it would be irresponsible not to comment on the latter.
A responsible religious leader must walk a fine line between adhering to the principles of their faith, encouraging that adherence in others, while not trying to COMPEL that adherence from anyone. Personally, I think he did OK here; the fact is anyone who denies Europe, the West in general, has become increasingly secular in the past two century or two is simply not paying attention. Beyond that he doesn't seem to have done much more than reiterate Roman Catholic disagreement with recent changes to Spanish law, prompted by said changes and their novelty.
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Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 07/11/2010 at 08:54:29 PM
Pope criticises gay marriage and abortion at cathedral consecration in Spain
07/11/2010 08:18:06 PM
- 1362 Views
Can't wait to see what he says about sanctity of life next time he's in TX....
07/11/2010 08:51:41 PM
- 1183 Views
You know, next time you tell people to not reopen certain debates...
07/11/2010 09:28:21 PM
- 1066 Views
Does Spain distinguish between secular and sacramental marriage?
08/11/2010 01:10:47 AM
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I would assume so, but can't say for sure.
08/11/2010 10:27:01 AM
- 871 Views
Well, that's the out then.
08/11/2010 11:00:14 PM
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I'm more looking forward to how the Texans affirm their support for the institution like Spain
09/11/2010 11:36:16 PM
- 751 Views
The Catholic Church as a whole is opposed to capital punishment, and is fairly vocal about it.
09/11/2010 11:55:18 PM
- 7212 Views
But that's personal issues of the clergy and whatnot involved. It's not doctrine
13/11/2010 02:20:38 AM
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Spain doesn't have to deal with Fourteenth Amendments Equal Protection Clause.
10/11/2010 12:25:05 PM
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Re: Spain doesn't have to deal with Fourteenth Amendments Equal Protection Clause.
13/11/2010 02:25:01 AM
- 958 Views
Now that is the way to protest against the Pope. I wish people had thought of that here. *NM*
07/11/2010 09:02:51 PM
- 357 Views
The girl on girl kissing? Hell, yeah.
07/11/2010 09:23:17 PM
- 828 Views
you must have the Ugly lesbian Club in your area
07/11/2010 09:28:02 PM
- 905 Views

Re: you must have the Ugly lesbian Club in your area
07/11/2010 10:05:58 PM
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she's lesbian.
07/11/2010 10:32:37 PM
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Re: she's lesbian.
08/11/2010 01:14:32 AM
- 851 Views
lol sorry. I wasn't trying to come off all offended or like I was trying to spoil your joke
08/11/2010 01:26:54 AM
- 845 Views

Referring to the 1930s and then talking of re-evangelization is a rather painful gaffe, I must say.
07/11/2010 09:13:19 PM
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dang. how big and fancy is this cathedral going to be? *NM*
07/11/2010 09:28:44 PM
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Huge, but mostly it's just been built very slowly for financial reasons.
08/11/2010 10:23:32 AM
- 963 Views
Uh yeah because Franco was worse than the communists....
08/11/2010 03:43:55 AM
- 839 Views

Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top.
08/11/2010 10:17:10 AM
- 939 Views
Re: Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top.
08/11/2010 03:31:45 PM
- 1011 Views
Re: Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top.
08/11/2010 10:28:01 PM
- 877 Views
Re: Was he worse? We'll never know, seeing how he was the one that came out on top.
09/11/2010 10:24:38 AM
- 1142 Views
Ah, classic communist logic.
09/11/2010 08:17:48 PM
- 819 Views
I wouldn't expect anything less of him. *NM*
08/11/2010 02:28:36 AM
- 393 Views
Yeah, wouldn't it be hilariously awesome if he was, like, "Dudes, gay marriage ain't so bad." *NM*
08/11/2010 02:58:48 AM
- 451 Views
Again: The Pope doesn't oppress anyone.
08/11/2010 03:40:19 AM
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Awesome, except he's attacking people leaving, too. *NM*
08/11/2010 04:30:02 AM
- 398 Views
I would too.
08/11/2010 05:08:37 AM
- 834 Views
well fine, but you're telling them to leave, and attacking them for doing so.
08/11/2010 07:18:45 PM
- 724 Views
And here come the ad hominem attacks.
08/11/2010 09:32:23 PM
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No, it's more like a boss firing an employee and then bitching about them leaving. *NM*
08/11/2010 10:43:56 PM
- 464 Views
Did you hear the Church have stopped approving applications for people to officially leave,
08/11/2010 07:13:15 PM
- 808 Views
Not at all.
08/11/2010 09:29:29 PM
- 842 Views
Yeah, I'm with Dragonsoul on this one
08/11/2010 09:39:13 PM
- 734 Views
It makes a difference when they use your name as part of a statistic
09/11/2010 12:28:51 AM
- 1069 Views
Re: Pope criticises gay marriage and abortion at cathedral consecration in Spain
08/11/2010 05:24:46 PM
- 679 Views
This is funny.
09/11/2010 08:42:52 PM
- 764 Views
I often wonder the same thing, think about the sheer quantity of proven pedophile priests, then...
13/11/2010 11:07:39 PM
- 828 Views