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All empirical evidence is ultimately anecdotal. Joel Send a noteboard - 14/09/2009 08:50:32 AM
Don't have emotions, don't have true memory beyond a few minutes, all the garbage I don't buy.
humans are so NOT the only species who masturbate.

Hell I've seen GELDED horses do it.

That's a neat trick with nothing to... y'know....

It isn't all garbage. Though I don't doubt your ability to look scientific consensus and empirical evidence in the face and say, "that's garbage."

To compare a horse's brain (about the size of a grapefruit) or a turtle's brain (a great deal smaller) to a human's brain is ludicrous as is insinuating that these animals, which have obviously taken a much different evolutionary path than humans would have emotions similar to humans'.

Many animals masturbate. Cetaceans and most apes, for example.

Nbd, js.

I have witnessed just the dogs I've had display so many kinds of intense emotions that the suggestion they're devoid of them isn't a matter of me ignoring empirical evidence, but of citing it. My father once had two dogs from the same litter who were inseparable, and when one of them died (I forget how; before my time) the other crawled up under the house refused to eat and didn't come out for the week it took him to die, too. The dog I recently lost had a similar bond with the dog my mom got shortly before I moved back here the first time; I had to physically restrain him to keep him from humping the other each time we brought him back from the vet, but if watched he'd content himself with going over and just lying with his head on him. And after he died his companion periodically and obviously looked around the house for him for weeks after the fact. And of course both of those dogs and one we got in between getting each of them worshiped me, although to my regret I didn't realize until after he was gone how true that was for the last one. The first one had to be where I was or as close as possible at all times, and that wasn't simply a security issue, because my mom took him in but I think he decided he was "my dog" before I even made it back here. To say nothing of the preternatural way each of them knew when I was feeling down and would try to come cheer me up however they could. I've seen joy, fear, sadness, excitement and Love as clearly in their eyes and faces as any humans, so when, as I often have, I hear the "scientific consensus" the higher animals lack emotion I can't help wondering if those stating it have ever spent time with an animal outside a clinical environment.

Glad to see ya made it here though, and hope all is well. Might keep your eye out 'cos I know draggie and Loto have been around on Skype recently, though whether studies will permit a group with them (so to speak... :P ) soon I can't say, but I am off tomorrow, so if something develops I'm certainly down for it.


That "empirical evidence" is nothing but anecdotal.

Also, my point wasn't that animals don't have emotions, just that they aren't, and couldn't be, anything like ours. It's a very human trait to place human qualities on things we become attached to.

Anyway, good to be here I suppose. I must be a glutton for punishment.

We can measure some of it, recreate it, but at the end of the day the very nature of observation is dependence what people have witnessed. We're not talking about a few anomalous incidents, however, but well known phenomena anyone who studies animal behavior rather than just anatomy can attest.

I wouldn't say they're NOTHING like ours, but perhaps we're getting into an area of semantics; it would be pointless to try and quantify the extent similarities are and aren't present, because emotion isn't something tangible and precisely measurable. My initial response was taking issue with the attitude I've observed in some biologists to reduce animals to nothing more than instinct and hormones while elevating the animal homo sapiens to some kind of qualitatively different status. In many respects I do see valid distinctions between us and other animals, but this isn't one of them, and I don't think any of them are anatomical or hereditary.
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Horny Turtle Humping Shoe - 13/09/2009 02:02:51 AM 593 Views
Imagine reaching for your shoe... - 13/09/2009 02:16:58 AM 500 Views
I bet he didn't even call that shoe the next day. - 13/09/2009 04:11:45 AM 479 Views
coming from the species famous for "mating" with their hands - 13/09/2009 04:23:11 AM 458 Views
But supposedly humans are the only ones who do it for pleasure.... - 13/09/2009 04:30:10 AM 483 Views
okay that is so NONSENSE - 13/09/2009 04:52:49 AM 449 Views
Hey, I don't believe it either, just sniping at "animals aren't advanced enough to have feelings. " - 13/09/2009 05:24:35 AM 484 Views
Eh. - 13/09/2009 09:59:46 AM 429 Views
I'm not saying they're as developed as humans, but they aren't just machines either. - 13/09/2009 10:10:14 AM 527 Views
I so agree! - 13/09/2009 11:21:40 AM 473 Views
Thanks. - 14/09/2009 08:52:35 AM 569 Views
Re: I'm not saying they're as developed as humans, but they aren't just machines either. - 13/09/2009 06:55:50 PM 526 Views
All empirical evidence is ultimately anecdotal. - 14/09/2009 08:50:32 AM 558 Views
Well, didn't take you long to render your argument unfalsifiable. - 14/09/2009 09:08:50 AM 496 Views
That was really more of an aside than anything. - 14/09/2009 09:18:46 AM 450 Views
Re: Horny Turtle Humping Shoe - 13/09/2009 04:39:33 PM 510 Views

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