Active Users:730 Time:14/11/2024 05:54:54 AM
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. Joel Send a noteboard - 16/10/2010 07:16:21 AM
So, my question after reading your post: do you support the expression of tolerance, or the policies which you consider to be intolerant? Three paragraphs or less.

Whew, I'll give it a shot, though the question is a bit ambiguous, IMHO. Basically, I support people expressing whatever views they like so long as they don't commit or advocate violence. Within private organizations I generally support them setting whatever policies they want. In public communities, I support equal protection under the law, which means you have to recognze the same rights and privileges to everyone unless there's a compelling mitigating factor (e.g. if you've been convicted of armed robbery three times you've forfeited the Second Amendment rights with which you demonstrably can't be trusted. ) Thanks to the First Amendment, religion doesn't qualify as a compelling mitigating factor, but for the rules of the religion itself it obviously does.
And that is exactly what I alluded to regarding cultural relativism. I can understand it in terms of their culture, but I would never support it.

Culture doesn't give people an out for me. I understand quite well that opposition to gay sex (but not homosexuals themselves, a subtle but important distinction) is generally agreed to be part of Christian culture and happen to think it correct for various reasons not really relevant here. It should not be a part of American culture, because not every American is a Christian, there is growing debate within the Church about the historical opposition to gay sex and even if neither of those things were true the country is run by the Constitution, not the Church, for good reason. Others are free to publicly and vocally disagree with me, and I will respond by telling them why I think they're wrong. If they start assaulting homosexuals I'll call the cops.

So I support opposition to gay sex within the Church and oppose that opposition in America as a whole, because I believe that's the ethically correct thing to do in each case. Note that widespread opposition to gay sex is predominant in both cultures, but only acceptable to me in one. It's not because the cultures are different, but because Christianity entails a number of commitments that being an American does not, and gay sex is not, IMHO, reconcilable with those commitments. That's not a cultural distinction, it's a defining one. If I decide I don't like rock music I'm discarding part of American culture; if I change my citizenship to Norwegian I'm no longer an American.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 16/10/2010 at 07:17:01 AM
Reply to message
Love the Sinner - 13/10/2010 04:07:28 PM 1178 Views
I have to think about that for a while. - 13/10/2010 04:30:56 PM 710 Views
Suicide is significantly higher in young gay populations - 13/10/2010 05:36:01 PM 649 Views
That is not what I think requires thought - 13/10/2010 05:56:06 PM 656 Views
Nossy I ain't a mind reader, no matter how I try or how much I would do Jean Grey - 13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM 782 Views
for ze record - 14/10/2010 02:54:07 AM 673 Views
ok now show that it caused by what Christian beliefs *NM* - 13/10/2010 06:50:32 PM 339 Views
I don't think it's the belief's themselves - 14/10/2010 12:20:01 AM 694 Views
The churches who encourage people to bully gays should be condemned - 14/10/2010 06:43:06 PM 686 Views
Re: I have to think about that for a while. - 13/10/2010 06:29:09 PM 677 Views
He was very frank but completely founded - 13/10/2010 04:34:46 PM 746 Views
Ah, that Ghandi quote sure does get around. (which is funny, since he wasn't a Christian) - 13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM 772 Views
I'm not sure that is true - 13/10/2010 05:16:30 PM 656 Views
I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 05:45:45 PM 737 Views
Question (and this one actually is asking for information )... - 13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM 569 Views
Yes and no - 13/10/2010 06:53:26 PM 830 Views
Okay, fair enough. *NM* - 13/10/2010 07:48:21 PM 302 Views
I would think... - 14/10/2010 04:35:31 AM 725 Views
I have seen gays be bullied before - 13/10/2010 07:02:35 PM 763 Views
You just didn't listen to a thing I said *NM* - 13/10/2010 07:09:29 PM 301 Views
I think there's truth in this as well. - 13/10/2010 07:55:00 PM 706 Views
churches tend to refelect society as much if not more then they influence it - 14/10/2010 07:15:35 PM 677 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 08:30:42 PM 740 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 09:55:52 PM 745 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 14/10/2010 03:49:14 PM 731 Views
Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level - 14/10/2010 05:49:22 PM 764 Views
Re: Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level - 14/10/2010 08:52:24 PM 775 Views
Do you know greek or hebrew? - 14/10/2010 08:57:32 PM 632 Views
I know a few words here and there, but not really. Do you? - 14/10/2010 10:46:36 PM 759 Views
I don't look to Christianity for my answers - 15/10/2010 03:02:16 PM 737 Views
Re: I don't look to Christianity for my answers - 15/10/2010 04:27:25 PM 776 Views
You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point - 13/10/2010 05:51:53 PM 781 Views
so should Christians abandon other religious conviction to stop bullying? - 13/10/2010 07:39:54 PM 682 Views
Re: You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point - 13/10/2010 08:23:07 PM 704 Views
That seems a little myopic to me. - 14/10/2010 09:16:27 AM 692 Views
I think he is jackass that does not believe other's can have apoint of view - 13/10/2010 06:48:12 PM 674 Views
That's right, bullying would go away if we didn't have Christians to make moral judgements on things - 13/10/2010 08:11:27 PM 764 Views
I mostly agree - 13/10/2010 08:19:00 PM 831 Views
most of the bullies I remember from school were not known for their regular church attendance - 14/10/2010 07:24:06 PM 644 Views
I thought I pretty much agreed with you on that point - 14/10/2010 07:44:07 PM 704 Views
Interesting - 13/10/2010 08:56:46 PM 995 Views
Sometime rants do work and change people's mind - 13/10/2010 09:23:39 PM 591 Views
and sometoimes they are just rants *NM* - 13/10/2010 10:01:55 PM 280 Views
Okay my response now - 14/10/2010 06:04:02 PM 728 Views
He becomes what he hates. - 14/10/2010 02:40:19 AM 855 Views
Good stuff. *NM* - 14/10/2010 02:56:44 AM 302 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 03:06:36 AM 749 Views
I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker. - 14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM 812 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 11:50:04 PM 754 Views
It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 15/10/2010 01:16:10 AM 658 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 16/10/2010 05:20:56 AM 775 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 16/10/2010 07:16:21 AM 689 Views
I don't think there is any question... - 14/10/2010 04:42:45 AM 708 Views
If I may quibble: - 14/10/2010 05:22:22 AM 535 Views
He's bullying Christians - 14/10/2010 04:47:13 AM 688 Views
I agree - 14/10/2010 04:09:23 PM 787 Views
Two seperate things are mingled here - 14/10/2010 09:50:42 AM 890 Views

Reply to Message