So, my question after reading your post: do you support the expression of tolerance, or the policies which you consider to be intolerant? Three paragraphs or less.
Whew, I'll give it a shot, though the question is a bit ambiguous, IMHO. Basically, I support people expressing whatever views they like so long as they don't commit or advocate violence. Within private organizations I generally support them setting whatever policies they want. In public communities, I support equal protection under the law, which means you have to recognze the same rights and privileges to everyone unless there's a compelling mitigating factor (e.g. if you've been convicted of armed robbery three times you've forfeited the Second Amendment rights with which you demonstrably can't be trusted. ) Thanks to the First Amendment, religion doesn't qualify as a compelling mitigating factor, but for the rules of the religion itself it obviously does.
And that is exactly what I alluded to regarding cultural relativism. I can understand it in terms of their culture, but I would never support it.
Culture doesn't give people an out for me. I understand quite well that opposition to gay sex (but not homosexuals themselves, a subtle but important distinction) is generally agreed to be part of Christian culture and happen to think it correct for various reasons not really relevant here. It should not be a part of American culture, because not every American is a Christian, there is growing debate within the Church about the historical opposition to gay sex and even if neither of those things were true the country is run by the Constitution, not the Church, for good reason. Others are free to publicly and vocally disagree with me, and I will respond by telling them why I think they're wrong. If they start assaulting homosexuals I'll call the cops.
So I support opposition to gay sex within the Church and oppose that opposition in America as a whole, because I believe that's the ethically correct thing to do in each case. Note that widespread opposition to gay sex is predominant in both cultures, but only acceptable to me in one. It's not because the cultures are different, but because Christianity entails a number of commitments that being an American does not, and gay sex is not, IMHO, reconcilable with those commitments. That's not a cultural distinction, it's a defining one. If I decide I don't like rock music I'm discarding part of American culture; if I change my citizenship to Norwegian I'm no longer an American.
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.
Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!
LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
This message last edited by Joel on 16/10/2010 at 07:17:01 AM
Love the Sinner
13/10/2010 04:07:28 PM
- 1181 Views
I have to think about that for a while.
13/10/2010 04:30:56 PM
- 714 Views
Suicide is significantly higher in young gay populations
13/10/2010 05:36:01 PM
- 653 Views
That is not what I think requires thought
13/10/2010 05:56:06 PM
- 657 Views
Nossy I ain't a mind reader, no matter how I try or how much I would do Jean Grey
13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM
- 787 Views
ok now show that it caused by what Christian beliefs *NM*
13/10/2010 06:50:32 PM
- 341 Views
I don't think it's the belief's themselves
14/10/2010 12:20:01 AM
- 696 Views
The churches who encourage people to bully gays should be condemned
14/10/2010 06:43:06 PM
- 688 Views
Ah, that Ghandi quote sure does get around. (which is funny, since he wasn't a Christian)
13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM
- 774 Views
I'm not sure that is true
13/10/2010 05:16:30 PM
- 659 Views
When's the last time you heard the quote attributed to anyone else?
13/10/2010 08:34:10 PM
- 634 Views
That many people don't know the correct origin doesn't change it though
13/10/2010 09:31:13 PM
- 785 Views
I think you are missing his point
13/10/2010 05:45:45 PM
- 739 Views
Question (and this one actually is asking for information )...
13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM
- 573 Views
I have seen gays be bullied before
13/10/2010 07:02:35 PM
- 766 Views
You just didn't listen to a thing I said *NM*
13/10/2010 07:09:29 PM
- 301 Views
why do you believe that? Because I don't agree with what you said?
13/10/2010 07:30:27 PM
- 685 Views
I said you aren't listening to a thing I said, for you didn't respond to anything that I wrote
13/10/2010 07:52:50 PM
- 667 Views
you are not interested in talking to anyone who doesn't agree with you
13/10/2010 09:01:03 PM
- 656 Views
I think there's truth in this as well.
13/10/2010 07:55:00 PM
- 710 Views
churches tend to refelect society as much if not more then they influence it
14/10/2010 07:15:35 PM
- 681 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point
13/10/2010 08:30:42 PM
- 741 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point
13/10/2010 09:55:52 PM
- 748 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point
14/10/2010 03:49:14 PM
- 734 Views
Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level
14/10/2010 05:49:22 PM
- 766 Views
Re: Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level
14/10/2010 08:52:24 PM
- 776 Views
Do you know greek or hebrew?
14/10/2010 08:57:32 PM
- 634 Views
I know a few words here and there, but not really. Do you?
14/10/2010 10:46:36 PM
- 760 Views
There's a good case on both sides (try Strong's Concordance, if you haven't, btw. )
15/10/2010 05:09:21 AM
- 1179 Views
You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point
13/10/2010 05:51:53 PM
- 783 Views
so should Christians abandon other religious conviction to stop bullying?
13/10/2010 07:39:54 PM
- 684 Views
Many good points there; I think I'll let you play Defender of the Faith for a bit.
14/10/2010 08:50:23 AM
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I think he is jackass that does not believe other's can have apoint of view
13/10/2010 06:48:12 PM
- 677 Views
That's right, bullying would go away if we didn't have Christians to make moral judgements on things
13/10/2010 08:11:27 PM
- 767 Views
I mostly agree
13/10/2010 08:19:00 PM
- 834 Views
most of the bullies I remember from school were not known for their regular church attendance
14/10/2010 07:24:06 PM
- 646 Views
Let me see if I can understand where we agree, it is hard to do with all the Sarcasm
13/10/2010 08:48:38 PM
- 718 Views
Meh. He's not entirely incorrect. But not all Christians are anti-gay.
13/10/2010 08:43:04 PM
- 739 Views
It is better to be a Tolkein than a Token
13/10/2010 08:52:09 PM
- 712 Views
If I were a Tolkien liberal Christian, wouldn't that make me an American Roman Catholic? *NM*
13/10/2010 09:18:57 PM
- 279 Views
Interesting
13/10/2010 08:56:46 PM
- 999 Views
His first three sentences were totally unecessary. The rest is conspiracy-laden nonsense.
14/10/2010 12:37:06 AM
- 763 Views
Re:
14/10/2010 03:06:36 AM
- 752 Views
I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker.
14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM
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Re:
14/10/2010 11:50:04 PM
- 760 Views
It's nothing at all like cultural relativism.
15/10/2010 01:16:10 AM
- 661 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism.
16/10/2010 05:20:56 AM
- 776 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism.
16/10/2010 07:16:21 AM
- 691 Views
I don't think there is any question...
14/10/2010 04:42:45 AM
- 712 Views
A lot of Christian doctrine states that people cannot know who is worthy of God and it's not up to
14/10/2010 05:41:19 AM
- 709 Views
I think he's reading a lot of things into that letter that aren't there.
14/10/2010 08:22:13 AM
- 661 Views