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Okay my response now Roland00 Send a noteboard - 14/10/2010 06:04:02 PM
Bullying itself doesn't lead to suicide, yet it is very much a factor in suicide. What is the real cause of suicide is not pain in itself, but the thought that the pain is eternal and their is no hope, and you would do anything to make it stop.

In addition in my mind it isn't the conflict of being gay or being different that causes people to commit suicide. Nor is it the family conflict. A couple of those 5 people I listed were already out before committing suicide, yet the committed suicide even if they accepted the fact they were gay.

What causes people to commit suicide is that their lives are miserable, always has been, and the feel it always will be miserable. Bullying by itself isn't the cause of suicide, it is just something that escalates the situation, it is the kerosene thrown on the fire. There is a difference from having an awful life and having a one that is miserable, their is a difference from suffering pain and suffering misery. Some people here may not understand this but people that have suffered depression or have attempted suicide definitely know what I am talking about.

The fact that a couple of those boys have come out as gay and then years later committed suicide illustrates this point. To them they have already accepted they were gay, accepted they weren't going to change that fact, it was going to be forever. And if being gay means being in pain, and if gay is forever, then it follows to that depressed person mind that pain is forever, misery is forever, and there is no hope, no joy in the world.

And that is why Dan Savage project hopefully will make a difference. Life can get better, in addition you can change how you feel pain, pain doesn't have to equal misery. The fact you can change how you experience pain though will probably not work on changing a teenage mind though, it has to be experienced and it is a process that takes years.

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One of the reason that children rarely commit suicide when compared to adults is that their sense of death, personhood and time is completely different than a teenager, completely different than an adult.
This message last edited by Roland00 on 14/10/2010 at 06:06:23 PM
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Love the Sinner - 13/10/2010 04:07:28 PM 1180 Views
I have to think about that for a while. - 13/10/2010 04:30:56 PM 713 Views
Suicide is significantly higher in young gay populations - 13/10/2010 05:36:01 PM 652 Views
That is not what I think requires thought - 13/10/2010 05:56:06 PM 657 Views
Nossy I ain't a mind reader, no matter how I try or how much I would do Jean Grey - 13/10/2010 06:06:42 PM 786 Views
for ze record - 14/10/2010 02:54:07 AM 676 Views
ok now show that it caused by what Christian beliefs *NM* - 13/10/2010 06:50:32 PM 340 Views
I don't think it's the belief's themselves - 14/10/2010 12:20:01 AM 696 Views
The churches who encourage people to bully gays should be condemned - 14/10/2010 06:43:06 PM 687 Views
Re: I have to think about that for a while. - 13/10/2010 06:29:09 PM 680 Views
He was very frank but completely founded - 13/10/2010 04:34:46 PM 749 Views
Ah, that Ghandi quote sure does get around. (which is funny, since he wasn't a Christian) - 13/10/2010 05:07:42 PM 773 Views
I'm not sure that is true - 13/10/2010 05:16:30 PM 658 Views
I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 05:45:45 PM 739 Views
Question (and this one actually is asking for information )... - 13/10/2010 06:42:17 PM 572 Views
Yes and no - 13/10/2010 06:53:26 PM 833 Views
Okay, fair enough. *NM* - 13/10/2010 07:48:21 PM 302 Views
I would think... - 14/10/2010 04:35:31 AM 729 Views
I have seen gays be bullied before - 13/10/2010 07:02:35 PM 765 Views
You just didn't listen to a thing I said *NM* - 13/10/2010 07:09:29 PM 301 Views
I think there's truth in this as well. - 13/10/2010 07:55:00 PM 709 Views
churches tend to refelect society as much if not more then they influence it - 14/10/2010 07:15:35 PM 680 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 08:30:42 PM 741 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 13/10/2010 09:55:52 PM 747 Views
Re: I think you are missing his point - 14/10/2010 03:49:14 PM 733 Views
Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level - 14/10/2010 05:49:22 PM 766 Views
Re: Actually you can very much debate whether homosexuality is a sin on a textual level - 14/10/2010 08:52:24 PM 775 Views
Do you know greek or hebrew? - 14/10/2010 08:57:32 PM 633 Views
I know a few words here and there, but not really. Do you? - 14/10/2010 10:46:36 PM 760 Views
I don't look to Christianity for my answers - 15/10/2010 03:02:16 PM 739 Views
Re: I don't look to Christianity for my answers - 15/10/2010 04:27:25 PM 777 Views
You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point - 13/10/2010 05:51:53 PM 783 Views
so should Christians abandon other religious conviction to stop bullying? - 13/10/2010 07:39:54 PM 684 Views
Re: You're kind of sidestepping a large part of his point - 13/10/2010 08:23:07 PM 704 Views
That seems a little myopic to me. - 14/10/2010 09:16:27 AM 696 Views
I think he is jackass that does not believe other's can have apoint of view - 13/10/2010 06:48:12 PM 677 Views
That's right, bullying would go away if we didn't have Christians to make moral judgements on things - 13/10/2010 08:11:27 PM 767 Views
I mostly agree - 13/10/2010 08:19:00 PM 833 Views
most of the bullies I remember from school were not known for their regular church attendance - 14/10/2010 07:24:06 PM 646 Views
I thought I pretty much agreed with you on that point - 14/10/2010 07:44:07 PM 706 Views
Interesting - 13/10/2010 08:56:46 PM 998 Views
Sometime rants do work and change people's mind - 13/10/2010 09:23:39 PM 593 Views
and sometoimes they are just rants *NM* - 13/10/2010 10:01:55 PM 281 Views
Okay my response now - 14/10/2010 06:04:02 PM 734 Views
He becomes what he hates. - 14/10/2010 02:40:19 AM 859 Views
Good stuff. *NM* - 14/10/2010 02:56:44 AM 303 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 03:06:36 AM 751 Views
I think Chora has dibs on that bumper sticker. - 14/10/2010 09:35:02 AM 815 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 11:50:04 PM 759 Views
It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 15/10/2010 01:16:10 AM 660 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 16/10/2010 05:20:56 AM 775 Views
Re: It's nothing at all like cultural relativism. - 16/10/2010 07:16:21 AM 690 Views
I don't think there is any question... - 14/10/2010 04:42:45 AM 711 Views
If I may quibble: - 14/10/2010 05:22:22 AM 538 Views
He's bullying Christians - 14/10/2010 04:47:13 AM 691 Views
I agree - 14/10/2010 04:09:23 PM 788 Views
Two seperate things are mingled here - 14/10/2010 09:50:42 AM 893 Views

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