Active Users:1047 Time:13/11/2024 06:06:32 AM
are you socializing your debt when it is a private bank? random thoughts Send a noteboard - 13/10/2010 03:14:48 PM


Morality has sod all to do with it. If you're negative equitied to the hilt and you can pay your monthly mortgage, there is no argument. You owe the money and you may not gleefully socialise your debt. If you lose your job and can't make the payment until you find another, the bank's best interest here is to bear with you for a little while. If you took out a massive mortgage based on nonsense unsustainable earnings and then lose your job, you're an idiot and you will lose your house, and you will owe them the difference between the sale price and the mortgage amount.

I have very little sympathy for financial morons who push their debt on my tax bill, or my interest rate. Has nobody ever heard of moral hazard? They'll just do it again.


When you talk about financial morons who pushed their debt on your tax bill are you talking about the banks because they would fit that description? The banks gleefully socialized their bad investments. The banks charge a fee for the risk they are taking on why should the individual feel obligated to absorb all the loss while still paying that risk fee to the bank?

If enough people fail to pay their mortgage the bank will fail it is only because we have allowed banks to grow so large that the economy can not survive them failing that we have to socialize that debt. If not we could just allow the banks to fail do to their poor lending practices. Why do we expect the individuals in the worst hit areas to simply buck up and take one for the team out of some sense of social moral obligation? We don't seem to expect banks to behave in moral fashion, simply a legal one, but we expect individuals to even though they are paying an extremely high price for those morals and we are willing to help shoulder that cost.

I see a lot of people blaming the home owner for an idiot when they bought their house but that really is simply us rationalizing an unsympathetic attitude towards these people. I see a lot people talking about speculators or people buying homes that they could in no way afford but what about the guy who simply lived it the area and need a house? He bought a house he could afford and now it is worth 60% of what he paid for it. He should just be a good little citizen and take the hit all by himself? He isn’t legally required to so why should he be morally required to?
Reply to message
Is walking away from a mortgage immoral? - 12/10/2010 04:45:43 PM 1368 Views
Just as a contract is a two way street - - 12/10/2010 05:12:09 PM 869 Views
do we have a moral obligation to society? - 12/10/2010 06:00:17 PM 861 Views
It's a good question - 14/10/2010 02:41:21 AM 777 Views
Sort of have to disagree... - 13/10/2010 02:52:07 AM 813 Views
That's not true actually - 14/10/2010 02:35:43 AM 760 Views
Of course it's immoral. - 12/10/2010 05:13:16 PM 840 Views
But does one sided morality work? - 12/10/2010 05:38:56 PM 958 Views
That's the only kind of morality there is! What the hell is wrong with you? - 12/10/2010 08:15:55 PM 785 Views
nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again - 12/10/2010 09:34:33 PM 778 Views
Re: nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again - 15/10/2010 02:50:49 PM 1277 Views
well I really can't argue with the wrong is wrong end of story belief system - 15/10/2010 05:40:22 PM 978 Views
A contract isn't a promise; it's a legal agreement. *NM* - 12/10/2010 06:25:24 PM 405 Views
Which is why contracts have to be pages and pages long and combed over by bloodsucking lawyers. - 12/10/2010 06:39:18 PM 817 Views
I would agree with you if contracts didn't provide for breaking them. - 12/10/2010 07:33:15 PM 673 Views
Hrm. - 12/10/2010 07:35:38 PM 881 Views
It's not immoral to break the marriage contract. - 12/10/2010 08:19:50 PM 941 Views
I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. - 12/10/2010 08:37:52 PM 840 Views
Re: I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. - 12/10/2010 09:00:00 PM 931 Views
also - 12/10/2010 09:37:38 PM 787 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever. - 13/10/2010 11:38:06 PM 905 Views
That must be why they have you sign something called an agreementory note *NM* - 12/10/2010 07:33:32 PM 405 Views
Exactly *NM* - 12/10/2010 07:58:25 PM 387 Views
So, you think bankruptcy laws are immoral? - 13/10/2010 12:18:43 AM 826 Views
I don't think it's immoral at all. The contract usually specifies penalties for breach. - 12/10/2010 05:28:34 PM 910 Views
I thought the answer might be something like that. *NM* - 12/10/2010 05:35:35 PM 373 Views
that is close to the way I see it - 12/10/2010 05:45:25 PM 770 Views
It's both legal and immoral. - 12/10/2010 06:37:49 PM 853 Views
You didn't mention the third party - 12/10/2010 08:26:56 PM 700 Views
in a way I did since I did mention society - 12/10/2010 08:54:07 PM 845 Views
Thus the edit - 12/10/2010 09:10:53 PM 870 Views
either way I think you made a good point *NM* - 12/10/2010 09:38:58 PM 372 Views
will those neighbors... - 14/10/2010 04:52:26 AM 973 Views
All depends where you get your morals from, really. - 12/10/2010 08:28:41 PM 829 Views
I guess what i was trying to ask, at least in part - 12/10/2010 09:48:24 PM 797 Views
What if you look at it from the other perspective? - 12/10/2010 09:00:20 PM 848 Views
do you think they would if they had a legal way to do it? - 12/10/2010 10:04:57 PM 826 Views
Good point. *NM* - 12/10/2010 11:10:26 PM 389 Views
Sure, you could do that. - 13/10/2010 01:54:55 AM 851 Views
Much like the concept of morality itself. - 12/10/2010 11:47:23 PM 766 Views
I find this line particularly interesting. - 13/10/2010 12:13:18 AM 788 Views
Dunno. - 13/10/2010 12:56:56 AM 893 Views
As a professional in financial services - no, it is not. - 13/10/2010 01:44:18 AM 800 Views
but almost nobody sees it that way - 13/10/2010 12:53:25 PM 802 Views
Is the deal that if you default, the bank gets the house and nothing else, though? - 13/10/2010 02:40:48 PM 795 Views
yes but the bank has a limited ability to collect - 13/10/2010 02:47:34 PM 710 Views
I think it's morally wrong to walk away from credit card debt. *NM* - 13/10/2010 09:43:11 PM 380 Views
I'm curious how you reconcile that - 13/10/2010 09:47:59 PM 823 Views
Collateral - 19/10/2010 07:21:14 PM 1319 Views
I agree, what do you think is different? - 13/10/2010 09:59:36 PM 822 Views
I lost sleep over it, but I did it anyway. - 13/10/2010 05:24:19 AM 884 Views
OK what if you take it a step further - 13/10/2010 03:44:30 PM 838 Views
Good question - 14/10/2010 05:13:41 AM 856 Views
I have some questions about this issue. - 13/10/2010 08:14:37 AM 812 Views
how do those questions affect the morality of the situation? - 13/10/2010 03:20:14 PM 769 Views
Obviously, the essential difference is can't pay versus won't pay. - 13/10/2010 02:16:07 PM 775 Views
are you socializing your debt when it is a private bank? - 13/10/2010 03:14:48 PM 827 Views
You are when said bank requires a bailout. And very many of them do. - 13/10/2010 03:22:59 PM 786 Views
it is the home fault that the banks have to be bailed out - 13/10/2010 03:49:37 PM 847 Views
I believe it immoral to do harm. - 13/10/2010 04:38:28 PM 860 Views
I really don't understand a system where this could be an advantage. - 13/10/2010 11:16:57 PM 806 Views
There's generally something like a 7 or 10 year limit on credit reporting here. - 13/10/2010 11:46:58 PM 822 Views
What's the use of suing someone who has no money? *NM* - 13/10/2010 11:48:47 PM 438 Views
You can garnish their wages. - 13/10/2010 11:49:36 PM 781 Views
With parsley? - 13/10/2010 11:51:37 PM 869 Views
No, "someone" most certainly did not, wicked young Miss! Hmph! *NM* - 13/10/2010 11:52:40 PM 429 Views
If they suddenly come into some, you're entitled to it. *NM* - 14/10/2010 12:07:34 AM 505 Views
Bit of a long shot. *NM* - 14/10/2010 12:09:12 AM 354 Views
Very. Best to cover your bases though. *NM* - 14/10/2010 10:04:25 PM 373 Views
Not if the doctrine of election applies. - 14/10/2010 10:14:07 PM 769 Views
Are we not talking about credit companies going after people who owe them money? - 14/10/2010 10:18:47 PM 817 Views
Yeah, I guess we are. - 14/10/2010 10:28:40 PM 854 Views
Re: - 14/10/2010 03:09:18 AM 801 Views
I am currently in that situation... - 14/10/2010 05:03:23 AM 899 Views
Re: I am currently in that situation... - 14/10/2010 05:49:24 PM 1141 Views
it is easy for me and others to be glib when it is just a theory *NM* - 14/10/2010 08:19:16 PM 377 Views

Reply to Message