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I'm not absolved of my obligations based on the bad behaviors of others. Sareitha Sedai Send a noteboard - 12/10/2010 08:25:33 PM
I am not trying to argue with just examining the issue. Like I said I don't know the answers the question and I think it is a very complicated issue.


It isn't complicated to me. Character isn't situationally dependent.

I could be argued that the people paying loans on home that is worth less than the value of the loan are being harmed. It could also be argued that the banks are fault for the current housing crisis so they were in effect harmed by the unethical behavior of the same organizations they are now being told they must behave in moral manner towards.


No, it really couldn't. They borrowed a certain amount of money and they are paying back that amount of money. No matter the value of the home they are paying on, the terms of the agreement have not changed, so they can't be any more or less harmful than the day they were signed. Should anyone who has paid off a mortgage above the amount that their home is currently worth be seeking a refund?

Or to be less wordy, the banks screwed things up now want everyone else to place nice and keep paying.


The banks didn't screw this up without quite a lot of help from their borrowers.





If you are from Betelgeuse, please have one of your Earth friends read what I've written before you respond. Or try concentrating harder.

"The trophy problem has become extreme."
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Is walking away from a mortgage immoral? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 04:45:43 PM 1367 Views
Just as a contract is a two way street - SilverWarder - 12/10/2010 05:12:09 PM 868 Views
do we have a moral obligation to society? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 06:00:17 PM 861 Views
It's a good question SilverWarder - 14/10/2010 02:41:21 AM 777 Views
Sort of have to disagree... Antigone - 13/10/2010 02:52:07 AM 812 Views
That's not true actually SilverWarder - 14/10/2010 02:35:43 AM 759 Views
Of course it's immoral. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 05:13:16 PM 839 Views
But does one sided morality work? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 05:38:56 PM 958 Views
You asked about the morality of walking away when the borrower still has the ability to pay. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:31:10 PM 759 Views
A company or organization cannot act morally or immorally? I strongly disagree. *NM* Legolas - 12/10/2010 07:50:42 PM 384 Views
No, it cannot. However the individuals making the decisions for the company can. *NM* Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:48:23 PM 327 Views
If banks can not behave in moral manner why should people be expected to behave in moral manner? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:07:56 PM 831 Views
I'm not absolved of my obligations based on the bad behaviors of others. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:25:33 PM 735 Views
but who you owe obligations to is a factor random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:03:04 PM 792 Views
Because it's their moral obligation. Morality is not a trade, you act morally because it is right Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:47:41 PM 923 Views
you also use reason and logic to decide where your loyalty rest random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:16:51 PM 821 Views
You have not explained how it IS the banks' fault Cannoli - 15/10/2010 01:30:10 PM 856 Views
That's the only kind of morality there is! What the hell is wrong with you? Cannoli - 12/10/2010 08:15:55 PM 784 Views
nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:34:33 PM 777 Views
Re: nothing wrong with me but I think you are off your meds again Cannoli - 15/10/2010 02:50:49 PM 1276 Views
well I really can't argue with the wrong is wrong end of story belief system random thoughts - 15/10/2010 05:40:22 PM 978 Views
A contract isn't a promise; it's a legal agreement. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 06:25:24 PM 404 Views
Which is why contracts have to be pages and pages long and combed over by bloodsucking lawyers. LiterateDog - 12/10/2010 06:39:18 PM 816 Views
I would agree with you if contracts didn't provide for breaking them. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 07:33:15 PM 672 Views
Hrm. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:35:38 PM 880 Views
did you take a personal oath in front of god and your loved ones to pay the loan back? *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:09:07 PM 393 Views
Let's assume we're talking about a marriage where no such oath was taken... *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:10:54 PM 407 Views
if there is no oath of fidelity then straying would not be immoral *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:40:53 PM 380 Views
It's not immoral to break the marriage contract. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 08:19:50 PM 940 Views
I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 08:37:52 PM 839 Views
Re: I don't see that as the flaw in my logic. Ghavrel - 12/10/2010 09:00:00 PM 930 Views
also random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:37:38 PM 786 Views
That makes no sense whatsoever. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:38:06 PM 904 Views
That must be why they have you sign something called an agreementory note *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 07:33:32 PM 404 Views
Exactly *NM* Cannoli - 12/10/2010 07:58:25 PM 387 Views
So, you think bankruptcy laws are immoral? everynametaken - 13/10/2010 12:18:43 AM 825 Views
I don't think it's immoral at all. The contract usually specifies penalties for breach. Tom - 12/10/2010 05:28:34 PM 909 Views
I thought the answer might be something like that. *NM* Rebekah - 12/10/2010 05:35:35 PM 372 Views
that is close to the way I see it random thoughts - 12/10/2010 05:45:25 PM 769 Views
It's both legal and immoral. LiterateDog - 12/10/2010 06:37:49 PM 852 Views
You didn't mention the third party Roland00 - 12/10/2010 08:26:56 PM 699 Views
in a way I did since I did mention society random thoughts - 12/10/2010 08:54:07 PM 844 Views
Thus the edit Roland00 - 12/10/2010 09:10:53 PM 869 Views
either way I think you made a good point *NM* random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:38:58 PM 371 Views
will those neighbors... damookster - 14/10/2010 04:52:26 AM 972 Views
All depends where you get your morals from, really. Nebhead - 12/10/2010 08:28:41 PM 829 Views
I guess what i was trying to ask, at least in part random thoughts - 12/10/2010 09:48:24 PM 796 Views
What if you look at it from the other perspective? Sareitha Sedai - 12/10/2010 09:00:20 PM 847 Views
do you think they would if they had a legal way to do it? random thoughts - 12/10/2010 10:04:57 PM 825 Views
Good point. *NM* Tashmere - 12/10/2010 11:10:26 PM 388 Views
Sure, you could do that. Aeryn - 13/10/2010 01:54:55 AM 850 Views
The problem is that you're buying something today and paying for it for the next 15/30/50 years. Sareitha Sedai - 13/10/2010 03:04:26 PM 734 Views
Much like the concept of morality itself. Gaps - 12/10/2010 11:47:23 PM 766 Views
I find this line particularly interesting. everynametaken - 13/10/2010 12:13:18 AM 787 Views
Dunno. nossy - 13/10/2010 12:56:56 AM 893 Views
As a professional in financial services - no, it is not. Aeryn - 13/10/2010 01:44:18 AM 799 Views
but almost nobody sees it that way random thoughts - 13/10/2010 12:53:25 PM 801 Views
Is the deal that if you default, the bank gets the house and nothing else, though? Legolas - 13/10/2010 02:40:48 PM 794 Views
yes but the bank has a limited ability to collect random thoughts - 13/10/2010 02:47:34 PM 709 Views
I think it's morally wrong to walk away from credit card debt. *NM* Aeryn - 13/10/2010 09:43:11 PM 379 Views
I'm curious how you reconcile that Sareitha Sedai - 13/10/2010 09:47:59 PM 822 Views
Collateral Aeryn - 19/10/2010 07:21:14 PM 1318 Views
I agree, what do you think is different? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 09:59:36 PM 822 Views
The difference is that the bank owns the house. Whereas when I buy stuff, it's mine. *NM* Aeryn - 19/10/2010 07:05:34 PM 362 Views
I too am unable to work out what distinguishes the two situations. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:54:15 PM 757 Views
I lost sleep over it, but I did it anyway. John - 13/10/2010 05:24:19 AM 884 Views
OK what if you take it a step further random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:44:30 PM 837 Views
Good question John - 14/10/2010 05:13:41 AM 855 Views
I have some questions about this issue. MightyYT - 13/10/2010 08:14:37 AM 811 Views
how do those questions affect the morality of the situation? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:20:14 PM 768 Views
Obviously, the essential difference is can't pay versus won't pay. Elaine - 13/10/2010 02:16:07 PM 775 Views
are you socializing your debt when it is a private bank? random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:14:48 PM 826 Views
You are when said bank requires a bailout. And very many of them do. Elaine - 13/10/2010 03:22:59 PM 785 Views
it is the home fault that the banks have to be bailed out random thoughts - 13/10/2010 03:49:37 PM 847 Views
I believe it immoral to do harm. Macharius - 13/10/2010 04:38:28 PM 859 Views
I really don't understand a system where this could be an advantage. Tim - 13/10/2010 11:16:57 PM 806 Views
There's generally something like a 7 or 10 year limit on credit reporting here. LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:46:58 PM 821 Views
What's the use of suing someone who has no money? *NM* Tim - 13/10/2010 11:48:47 PM 437 Views
You can garnish their wages. LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:49:36 PM 781 Views
With parsley? Rebekah - 13/10/2010 11:51:37 PM 868 Views
No, "someone" most certainly did not, wicked young Miss! Hmph! *NM* LiterateDog - 13/10/2010 11:52:40 PM 429 Views
If they suddenly come into some, you're entitled to it. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 12:07:34 AM 504 Views
Bit of a long shot. *NM* Tim - 14/10/2010 12:09:12 AM 353 Views
Very. Best to cover your bases though. *NM* TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 10:04:25 PM 373 Views
Not if the doctrine of election applies. Tim - 14/10/2010 10:14:07 PM 768 Views
Are we not talking about credit companies going after people who owe them money? TaskmasterJack - 14/10/2010 10:18:47 PM 817 Views
Yeah, I guess we are. Tim - 14/10/2010 10:28:40 PM 854 Views
Re: Gaps - 14/10/2010 03:09:18 AM 800 Views
I am currently in that situation... damookster - 14/10/2010 05:03:23 AM 899 Views
In Washington you can contest the assessed value used to determine property taxes. Vodalus - 14/10/2010 07:27:02 AM 849 Views
Re: I am currently in that situation... Macharius - 14/10/2010 05:49:24 PM 1140 Views
it is easy for me and others to be glib when it is just a theory *NM* random thoughts - 14/10/2010 08:19:16 PM 376 Views
If you have the ability to pay, I would consider it yet another immoral act in an immoral industry. Joel - 14/10/2010 07:49:38 AM 825 Views
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