Re: firefighters allow home to burn to ground in rural tennessee
Macharius Send a noteboard - 06/10/2010 06:05:45 PM
I don't feel at all sorry for the guy: he made the choice to not pay the fee. However, I think that he should have been able to be billed the full "retail" cost of the firefighters saving his house (which I read somewhere could be around $7,500).
Others may be able to confirm of refute this, but I think rural Tennessee is vehemently anti-tax: it seems likely to me that the residents there would complain just as loudly if they were taxed to support local fire fighting services. 'Cuz hey, I hate the guv'ment til I need the guv'ment to give me a handout....
The real tragedy here is the three dogs and cat that died as a result of irresponsibly disposing of trash.
Others may be able to confirm of refute this, but I think rural Tennessee is vehemently anti-tax: it seems likely to me that the residents there would complain just as loudly if they were taxed to support local fire fighting services. 'Cuz hey, I hate the guv'ment til I need the guv'ment to give me a handout....
The real tragedy here is the three dogs and cat that died as a result of irresponsibly disposing of trash.
firefighters allow home to burn to ground in rural tennessee
- 06/10/2010 02:35:20 AM
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what kind of bullshit is that?
- 06/10/2010 03:19:12 AM
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And that brings up another point. What if there had been someone in there?
- 06/10/2010 04:03:49 AM
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as i said before, they probably would have just rescued them then let the house burn.
- 06/10/2010 04:11:24 AM
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Why are you trivializing those "precious resources?"
- 06/10/2010 04:56:13 AM
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except we aren't talking about "people" or a "business"
- 06/10/2010 05:03:18 AM
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It's slightly different.
- 06/10/2010 05:20:55 AM
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I'm not against the fee. The fee makes sense.
- 06/10/2010 05:24:39 AM
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How does the fee makes sense?
- 06/10/2010 05:27:30 AM
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they were at the scene to put out the portion of the fire that spread to the neighbors.
- 06/10/2010 05:28:35 AM
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I completely agree with Aeryn. Her points in this discussion have been thought out and well put. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:25:47 AM
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We ARE talking about a business.
- 06/10/2010 05:33:40 AM
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actually, that's exactly what happens to hospitals. they shut down.
- 06/10/2010 05:36:28 AM
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i wouldn't expect a doctor or a hospital to take free loaders
- 06/10/2010 05:36:52 AM
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Re: i wouldn't expect a doctor or a hospital to take free loaders
- 06/10/2010 05:42:00 AM
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if a doctor refuses to aid a dying patient, he'll lose his license, for one.
- 06/10/2010 05:48:18 AM
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that's how hospitals get shut down.
- 06/10/2010 05:43:13 AM
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In this case, the hard line of letting people suffer the logical consequences is the moral thing
- 06/10/2010 05:53:51 AM
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I presume you meant to reply to me 
- 06/10/2010 06:05:18 AM
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- 06/10/2010 06:05:18 AM
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I didn't know that there had been a first time. That makes their "forgetting" even more disgusting.
- 06/10/2010 06:15:11 AM
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and it makes the fire department inconsistent, setting false expectations.
- 06/10/2010 06:18:39 AM
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Not trying to be a troll, but this seems (mostly) reasonable.
- 06/10/2010 03:44:53 AM
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on the other hand, how ethical is it to watch someone's home and pets burn and do nothing?
- 06/10/2010 03:58:27 AM
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So that tool who didn't want to pay his fee most likely because he never thought he would need to...
- 06/10/2010 03:25:12 PM
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Re: on the other hand, how ethical is it to watch someone's home and pets burn and do nothing?
- 06/10/2010 06:33:57 PM
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at that point, you're right, they may not have been able to save the animals
- 06/10/2010 07:38:45 PM
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the owner says he called after using a garden hose was unsuccessful to put the fire out
- 07/10/2010 03:08:03 AM
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And running the govt this way is stupid for it leads to worse results, it is no better than SoN
- 06/10/2010 04:02:02 AM
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It makes sense from a business standpoint. But that's precisely why we socialize these things.
- 06/10/2010 04:02:25 AM
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Apparently being poor wasn't a problem as he offered to pay whatever it takes. He gambled and lost. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:11:40 AM
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you shouldn't have to be gambling on whether a public service will be given.
- 06/10/2010 05:20:40 AM
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I've been trying to figure out what I think for a few hours now.
- 06/10/2010 04:24:35 AM
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It wasn't bureacracy, it was his CHOICE.
- 06/10/2010 04:30:22 AM
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I believe the specific reason was "forgot". That's different.
- 06/10/2010 04:47:38 AM
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Why the double quotes then?
- 06/10/2010 05:11:37 AM
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doesn't sound like he intentionally didn't pay it with what you said.
- 06/10/2010 05:18:26 AM
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The setup itself is wrong.
- 06/10/2010 05:25:13 AM
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you can't buy insurance after the fact...
- 06/10/2010 05:27:40 AM
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Yes, they should have a new policy that accounts for this brouhaha situation.
- 13/12/2011 06:21:30 PM
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Other than anarchists (read: idiots), who seriously argues against socialized police/firefighting? *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:20:39 AM
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Apparently the idiots that set it up so that the rural people were not covered by a fire department. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:37:31 AM
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We just found one: Aemon. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:37:46 AM
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Meh.
- 06/10/2010 05:47:40 AM
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why? *points up* *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:51:06 AM
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How far up? Which post are you referring to? I don't understand your "why." *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:55:36 AM
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Which post are you referring to? I don't understand your "why." *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:55:36 AM
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she is referring to the house burning down because someone did not pay a fee. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:59:03 AM
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Yes. I was answering your question of "why" - this news story is the why. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 06:00:56 AM
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We have a government do these things for Market Failures exist. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 12:46:25 PM
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*Big Edit* I was spreading false information. (Please read edit at the bottom.) People should not
- 06/10/2010 05:22:07 AM
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and why was it so impossible for him to pay late or pay extra?
- 06/10/2010 05:26:39 AM
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Because the fire departments costs have to be paid continually. They need the steady income
- 06/10/2010 05:33:34 AM
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Re:
- 06/10/2010 05:47:35 AM
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Why not? Isn't that what freedom is about?
- 06/10/2010 05:58:24 AM
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I'm not free to die. I'm not even free to smoke weed.
- 06/10/2010 06:07:17 AM
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Okay. I'm going to phrase this more explicately with a handy dandy vet comparison
- 06/10/2010 06:32:45 AM
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because then no one would pay until their house burned.
- 06/10/2010 05:34:52 AM
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if this was a less severe fire, I would agree with both you and Tash entirely.
- 06/10/2010 05:40:51 AM
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Risk to other properties is not a good argument. They DID come out to prevent that. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:54:19 AM
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that is not prevention, that is treatment.
- 06/10/2010 05:56:16 AM
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Speaking of prevention why were they letting their grandson burn trash? They were endangering
- 06/10/2010 06:02:12 AM
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it's very popular in the country to burn your trash instead of hauling it to a dump
- 06/10/2010 08:51:55 AM
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Surely they know to prepare the area around the burn area by clearing away anything that might catch
- 06/10/2010 02:51:38 PM
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i'm sure they told the wind not to blow in that area for a couple days too...
- 06/10/2010 04:12:03 PM
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Even when you are camping you are supposed to clear the area within twenty feet of the fire of
- 06/10/2010 10:24:21 PM
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all it takes is one piece of bad luck and "FOOSH" you're engulfed in flames
- 07/10/2010 04:11:49 PM
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The problem is...
- 06/10/2010 09:11:59 AM
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Re: The problem is...
- 06/10/2010 12:40:05 PM
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Re: The problem is...
- 06/10/2010 02:27:30 PM
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I just read that too. It does change my attitude. If he had always paid before and truly did forget
- 06/10/2010 10:27:56 PM
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I've been wondering how old he is too.
- 06/10/2010 10:30:20 PM
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Also they had been out of town. It was actually easy to see how it could have been overlooked.
- 06/10/2010 10:33:04 PM
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Well it is something we don't know, though we have the family saying it
- 06/10/2010 11:05:19 PM
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You are making an assumption that isn't proven by the evidence you use there
- 06/10/2010 11:34:05 AM
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You are right. I did open my mouth before hearing both sides of the story. This information does
- 06/10/2010 10:30:23 PM
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it's okay that's what the internet is good for, mindless rage ranting 
- 06/10/2010 10:32:33 PM
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- 06/10/2010 10:32:33 PM
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No. It isn't okay. I despise it when other people do that. It is worse when I catch myself doing it.
- 06/10/2010 10:45:03 PM
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Actually
- 07/10/2010 02:03:52 AM
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seriously. We chatted on facebook, tashy. you were MOST reasonable.
- 07/10/2010 02:12:38 AM
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What I was doing was repeating what others had said as fact rather than checking out the sources.
- 07/10/2010 02:56:21 AM
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i like my idea below of the city setting up an automatic-payment system for subscribers.
- 07/10/2010 03:02:36 AM
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And another thing. Many rural areas choose to have volunteer fire departments. This is an option.
- 06/10/2010 05:41:20 AM
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And people wonder why I'm not a Libertarian.
- 06/10/2010 06:03:55 AM
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Yeah, that's why I always use the 'pragmatic libertarian' descriptor
- 06/10/2010 09:54:48 AM
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That I can respect and understand.
- 06/10/2010 10:08:19 AM
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What you are describing is an anarchist
- 06/10/2010 12:37:05 PM
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It often seems to devolve into semantics.
- 06/10/2010 01:01:19 PM
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This is not a "libertarian" fire department...
- 06/10/2010 02:14:03 PM
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Libertarian/=non-government.
- 06/10/2010 02:16:10 PM
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I think you mean not equal to...
- 06/10/2010 02:28:30 PM
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In a way the article does speak to that, just not in the way I first thought.
- 07/10/2010 09:06:20 AM
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please use != or <> or =/= not your crazy invented symbolism
- 07/10/2010 07:38:31 AM
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- 07/10/2010 07:38:31 AM
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I didn't invent it.
- 07/10/2010 09:15:23 AM
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Or you could use the correct sign ≠ since RAFO does unicode properly
- 07/10/2010 09:51:39 AM
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come on, you didn't learn anything from compsci in high school??
- 07/10/2010 04:09:48 PM
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Which one does Turbo Pascal use?
- 07/10/2010 04:14:50 PM
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Turbo Pascal is about as dead as Fortran at this point
- 07/10/2010 04:32:01 PM
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My mom still has Fortran manuals. And COBOL.
- 08/10/2010 12:02:21 PM
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Not relevant to how it acted in this case though *NM*
- 06/10/2010 02:23:06 PM
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I see no issue with it...
- 06/10/2010 02:26:46 PM
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I'm not sure if you meant this as a reply to me? *NM*
- 06/10/2010 02:32:39 PM
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This better conveys what I was trying to say--this is a government problem
- 06/10/2010 06:27:03 PM
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I still don't agree
- 06/10/2010 07:16:19 PM
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Refer hence.
- 07/10/2010 09:39:42 AM
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I was expecting SELMA Hayek next to a burning house. Perhaps in a sheer dress, backlit. 
- 07/10/2010 09:35:38 AM
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- 07/10/2010 09:35:38 AM
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The argument against privately run fire departments is kind of sad
- 06/10/2010 08:24:26 PM
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if anything, it's in a businesses FAVOR to show up to unsubsribed houses, depending on their policy.
- 06/10/2010 10:24:13 PM
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Makes you wonder why people have insurance at all when it's cheaper to pay as you go.
- 07/10/2010 09:46:57 AM
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This a situation where you know there has to be a better way
- 06/10/2010 02:59:12 PM
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Good luck with that.
- 07/10/2010 10:03:05 AM
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some things should be done by the state and some by private organizations
- 07/10/2010 02:38:01 PM
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Does the state have authority to allocate county tax dollars?
- 07/10/2010 04:03:25 PM
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you have spent enough time in East Texas that you should know better than that
- 07/10/2010 04:26:26 PM
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In passing I'd like to note that this is a bizarre role reversal.
- 08/10/2010 10:52:09 AM
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- 08/10/2010 10:52:09 AM
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I am not against government just bad government *NM*
- 08/10/2010 02:38:26 PM
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I'll drink to that.
- 08/10/2010 02:42:12 PM
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if it wasn't I might be a democrat
*NM*
- 09/10/2010 04:43:35 PM
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*NM*
- 09/10/2010 04:43:35 PM
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Being a Democrat's SUPPOSED to mean you roll your sleeves up and fix it.
- 10/10/2010 03:06:24 AM
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Sounds like a sound decision to me. Fuck 'em. Burning trash? Idiots. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 03:16:53 PM
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I love when people demonstrate their ignorance while calling other people stupid
- 06/10/2010 04:37:52 PM
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Fuck your ignorant comment city boy. People all over this country still burn trash.
- 07/10/2010 01:18:15 AM
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Re: Fuck your ignorant comment city boy. People all over this country still burn trash.
- 07/10/2010 01:31:51 PM
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and so you think that is the way they do it everywhere?
- 07/10/2010 02:41:09 PM
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I think something is being missed here by many.
- 06/10/2010 03:39:12 PM
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Which is exactly why this whole contract / mayor / business talk is probably correct but insane
- 06/10/2010 04:00:44 PM
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I don't believe a SINGLE person here has said they should not pay.
- 06/10/2010 04:50:11 PM
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Re: I don't believe a SINGLE person here has said they should not pay.
- 06/10/2010 06:26:54 PM
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I'm betting no one will "forget" the fee anytime soon.
- 06/10/2010 04:57:38 PM
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there can be less disasterous incentives to pay the fee.
- 06/10/2010 05:50:01 PM
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And what consequence(s) can/do you enforce if the after-the-fact fee isn't paid? *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:55:38 PM
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Triple the fee.
- 06/10/2010 06:16:03 PM
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Tripling the premium fee is definitely not enough. I would think in terms of tripling the cost.
- 13/12/2011 06:27:56 PM
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*NM*
i'm assuming that a provision like this would be written into the policy.
- 06/10/2010 07:43:10 PM
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So the house continues to burn while you are explaining this contract to the homeowner
- 06/10/2010 08:08:00 PM
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No, i mean in the original policy, not in something later signed.
- 06/10/2010 10:20:46 PM
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For starters, put a lien on their home; governments routinely do that with unpaid fees.
- 07/10/2010 10:15:21 AM
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The whole program is an incentive.
- 06/10/2010 07:13:45 PM
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*gigles* you said incentive... oh, you mean the pun wasn't intended? *NM*
- 09/12/2011 07:02:44 AM
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I haven't had my coffee yet.
- 09/12/2011 01:23:46 PM
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It was a bit of a stretch, "incentive" is related etymology-wise with "to kindle" (incendere) *NM*
- 09/12/2011 04:36:02 PM
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Ah, I thought of "incendiary" and wondered if that was the case (that those words were related).
- 09/12/2011 05:13:13 PM
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Re: firefighters allow home to burn to ground in rural tennessee
- 06/10/2010 06:05:45 PM
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This.
- 06/10/2010 08:27:54 PM
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do we know exactly when the county stopped servicing them?
- 06/10/2010 10:23:06 PM
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They didn't have any service at all before twenty years ago. Then the city fire department offered
- 06/10/2010 11:05:37 PM
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as a former firefighter, here's my opinion about this:
- 06/10/2010 07:09:15 PM
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I am guessing they were told not to do it again.
- 06/10/2010 07:19:38 PM
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Now, John, your opinion as a professional firefighter is irrelevant here.
- 06/10/2010 07:47:41 PM
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My first question
- 06/10/2010 11:53:41 PM
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I agree with some of what you said
- 07/10/2010 01:54:36 AM
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*raises hand* speaking as someone who's participated in controlled prairie burning...
- 07/10/2010 02:10:56 AM
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Why would the animals be in the house if 911 was called before the fire ever reached the house?
- 07/10/2010 12:17:47 AM
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That whole thing does seem strange to me as well
- 07/10/2010 02:51:02 PM
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I can't believe the stupidity being spewed in this post. The solution is readily clear.
- 07/10/2010 01:32:01 AM
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From details others have revealed, it's really not that simple.
- 07/10/2010 10:24:39 AM
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Bullshit. It is that simple.
- 07/10/2010 10:59:34 AM
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Ultimately, yes, but it would almost certainly end with a lien and lawsuit with this joker.
- 07/10/2010 01:53:20 PM
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nonsense. by waiting, they created more costs for everyone.
- 07/10/2010 02:32:36 PM
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How so? They had to come put out one fire, period.
- 07/10/2010 03:21:51 PM
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because if they had come out when he intially called, or even soon thereafter...
- 07/10/2010 09:07:21 PM
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and that's not to mention the inevitable lawsuits this particular episode is going to spawn... 
*NM*
- 08/10/2010 04:52:44 AM
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*NM*
- 08/10/2010 04:52:44 AM
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Yes, they could've spared him a great deal of grief if they gave him free service.
- 08/10/2010 12:16:07 PM
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Is it in bad taste to note that this thread is on fire...?
- 07/10/2010 12:58:48 PM
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a FIRESTORM!
It took about two hours for the fire to spread from the barrels to the house? How did they not get
- 09/10/2010 12:49:26 AM
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Apparently, this has happened again
- 07/12/2011 09:05:20 PM
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Funny, I was thinking of this thread when I read that this morning too *NM*
- 07/12/2011 09:24:47 PM
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" *NM*
You are all crazy posting in this old thread!
- 11/12/2011 05:05:20 AM
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- 11/12/2011 05:05:20 AM
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