*Big Edit* I was spreading false information. (Please read edit at the bottom.) People should not
Tashmere Send a noteboard - 06/10/2010 05:22:07 AM
be expected to run into a burning house for someone that didn't think it was important enough to remember to pay. Apparently the man wasn't too poor to pay as he offered whatever it took to get the firefighters out.
The rest of the county paid for the services in their taxes. The rural people were given the choice to pay and this one chose not to. Maybe the rural people should insist on this payment being part of their taxes so they don't forget.
Sorry to sound heartless. If I were a firefighter myself I probably would have helped out of instinct. But, if I were the firefighter's family I would sorely resent someone expecting my husband to risk his life save their house when they hadn't bothered to put in their share for the upkeep of the fire department. It takes money to run. I agree with the mayor's reasons. He is protecting the firefighters. Kind of like doctors have to hire people to take care of billing because they wouldn't have the heart to do it themselves.
Socialization isn't all bad. Sometimes people have to be forced to protect themselves. Or helped to remember to pay their fair share.
*Edit* According to the man, he had always payed the fee in the past. There was one instance a few years ago when he forgot and had a chimney fire which the fire department didn't hesitate to put out and allowed him to pay the fee the next day. This time he was out of town or something for awhile and forgot because of that. This I can understand. I was way too harsh and needed to fix the false information I had spread.
The rest of the county paid for the services in their taxes. The rural people were given the choice to pay and this one chose not to. Maybe the rural people should insist on this payment being part of their taxes so they don't forget.
Sorry to sound heartless. If I were a firefighter myself I probably would have helped out of instinct. But, if I were the firefighter's family I would sorely resent someone expecting my husband to risk his life save their house when they hadn't bothered to put in their share for the upkeep of the fire department. It takes money to run. I agree with the mayor's reasons. He is protecting the firefighters. Kind of like doctors have to hire people to take care of billing because they wouldn't have the heart to do it themselves.
Socialization isn't all bad. Sometimes people have to be forced to protect themselves. Or helped to remember to pay their fair share.
*Edit* According to the man, he had always payed the fee in the past. There was one instance a few years ago when he forgot and had a chimney fire which the fire department didn't hesitate to put out and allowed him to pay the fee the next day. This time he was out of town or something for awhile and forgot because of that. This I can understand. I was way too harsh and needed to fix the false information I had spread.
This message last edited by Tashmere on 06/10/2010 at 10:41:32 PM
firefighters allow home to burn to ground in rural tennessee
- 06/10/2010 02:35:20 AM
2212 Views
what kind of bullshit is that?
- 06/10/2010 03:19:12 AM
1228 Views
And that brings up another point. What if there had been someone in there?
- 06/10/2010 04:03:49 AM
1218 Views
as i said before, they probably would have just rescued them then let the house burn.
- 06/10/2010 04:11:24 AM
1207 Views
Why are you trivializing those "precious resources?"
- 06/10/2010 04:56:13 AM
1313 Views
except we aren't talking about "people" or a "business"
- 06/10/2010 05:03:18 AM
1294 Views
It's slightly different.
- 06/10/2010 05:20:55 AM
1117 Views
I'm not against the fee. The fee makes sense.
- 06/10/2010 05:24:39 AM
1275 Views
How does the fee makes sense?
- 06/10/2010 05:27:30 AM
1196 Views
they were at the scene to put out the portion of the fire that spread to the neighbors.
- 06/10/2010 05:28:35 AM
1227 Views
I completely agree with Aeryn. Her points in this discussion have been thought out and well put. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:25:47 AM
596 Views
We ARE talking about a business.
- 06/10/2010 05:33:40 AM
1068 Views
actually, that's exactly what happens to hospitals. they shut down.
- 06/10/2010 05:36:28 AM
1170 Views
i wouldn't expect a doctor or a hospital to take free loaders
- 06/10/2010 05:36:52 AM
1099 Views
Re: i wouldn't expect a doctor or a hospital to take free loaders
- 06/10/2010 05:42:00 AM
1130 Views
if a doctor refuses to aid a dying patient, he'll lose his license, for one.
- 06/10/2010 05:48:18 AM
1282 Views
that's how hospitals get shut down.
- 06/10/2010 05:43:13 AM
1138 Views
In this case, the hard line of letting people suffer the logical consequences is the moral thing
- 06/10/2010 05:53:51 AM
1098 Views
I presume you meant to reply to me 
- 06/10/2010 06:05:18 AM
1067 Views
- 06/10/2010 06:05:18 AM
1067 Views
I didn't know that there had been a first time. That makes their "forgetting" even more disgusting.
- 06/10/2010 06:15:11 AM
1055 Views
and it makes the fire department inconsistent, setting false expectations.
- 06/10/2010 06:18:39 AM
1160 Views
Not trying to be a troll, but this seems (mostly) reasonable.
- 06/10/2010 03:44:53 AM
1305 Views
on the other hand, how ethical is it to watch someone's home and pets burn and do nothing?
- 06/10/2010 03:58:27 AM
1183 Views
So that tool who didn't want to pay his fee most likely because he never thought he would need to...
- 06/10/2010 03:25:12 PM
1210 Views
Re: on the other hand, how ethical is it to watch someone's home and pets burn and do nothing?
- 06/10/2010 06:33:57 PM
1563 Views
at that point, you're right, they may not have been able to save the animals
- 06/10/2010 07:38:45 PM
1087 Views
the owner says he called after using a garden hose was unsuccessful to put the fire out
- 07/10/2010 03:08:03 AM
1105 Views
And running the govt this way is stupid for it leads to worse results, it is no better than SoN
- 06/10/2010 04:02:02 AM
1127 Views
It makes sense from a business standpoint. But that's precisely why we socialize these things.
- 06/10/2010 04:02:25 AM
1388 Views
Apparently being poor wasn't a problem as he offered to pay whatever it takes. He gambled and lost. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:11:40 AM
568 Views
you shouldn't have to be gambling on whether a public service will be given.
- 06/10/2010 05:20:40 AM
1057 Views
I've been trying to figure out what I think for a few hours now.
- 06/10/2010 04:24:35 AM
1105 Views
It wasn't bureacracy, it was his CHOICE.
- 06/10/2010 04:30:22 AM
1137 Views
I believe the specific reason was "forgot". That's different.
- 06/10/2010 04:47:38 AM
1160 Views
Why the double quotes then?
- 06/10/2010 05:11:37 AM
1148 Views
doesn't sound like he intentionally didn't pay it with what you said.
- 06/10/2010 05:18:26 AM
1076 Views
The setup itself is wrong.
- 06/10/2010 05:25:13 AM
1049 Views
you can't buy insurance after the fact...
- 06/10/2010 05:27:40 AM
998 Views
Yes, they should have a new policy that accounts for this brouhaha situation.
- 13/12/2011 06:21:30 PM
1041 Views
Other than anarchists (read: idiots), who seriously argues against socialized police/firefighting? *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:20:39 AM
510 Views
Apparently the idiots that set it up so that the rural people were not covered by a fire department. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:37:31 AM
535 Views
We just found one: Aemon. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:37:46 AM
522 Views
Meh.
- 06/10/2010 05:47:40 AM
1012 Views
why? *points up* *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:51:06 AM
513 Views
How far up? Which post are you referring to? I don't understand your "why." *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:55:36 AM
564 Views
Which post are you referring to? I don't understand your "why." *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:55:36 AM
564 Views
she is referring to the house burning down because someone did not pay a fee. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:59:03 AM
531 Views
Yes. I was answering your question of "why" - this news story is the why. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 06:00:56 AM
500 Views
We have a government do these things for Market Failures exist. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 12:46:25 PM
559 Views
*Big Edit* I was spreading false information. (Please read edit at the bottom.) People should not
- 06/10/2010 05:22:07 AM
1164 Views
and why was it so impossible for him to pay late or pay extra?
- 06/10/2010 05:26:39 AM
1185 Views
Because the fire departments costs have to be paid continually. They need the steady income
- 06/10/2010 05:33:34 AM
1094 Views
Re:
- 06/10/2010 05:47:35 AM
1219 Views
Why not? Isn't that what freedom is about?
- 06/10/2010 05:58:24 AM
1087 Views
I'm not free to die. I'm not even free to smoke weed.
- 06/10/2010 06:07:17 AM
1133 Views
Okay. I'm going to phrase this more explicately with a handy dandy vet comparison
- 06/10/2010 06:32:45 AM
1238 Views
because then no one would pay until their house burned.
- 06/10/2010 05:34:52 AM
1083 Views
if this was a less severe fire, I would agree with both you and Tash entirely.
- 06/10/2010 05:40:51 AM
1002 Views
Risk to other properties is not a good argument. They DID come out to prevent that. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:54:19 AM
594 Views
that is not prevention, that is treatment.
- 06/10/2010 05:56:16 AM
1106 Views
Speaking of prevention why were they letting their grandson burn trash? They were endangering
- 06/10/2010 06:02:12 AM
1135 Views
it's very popular in the country to burn your trash instead of hauling it to a dump
- 06/10/2010 08:51:55 AM
1163 Views
Surely they know to prepare the area around the burn area by clearing away anything that might catch
- 06/10/2010 02:51:38 PM
964 Views
i'm sure they told the wind not to blow in that area for a couple days too...
- 06/10/2010 04:12:03 PM
1151 Views
Even when you are camping you are supposed to clear the area within twenty feet of the fire of
- 06/10/2010 10:24:21 PM
1020 Views
all it takes is one piece of bad luck and "FOOSH" you're engulfed in flames
- 07/10/2010 04:11:49 PM
869 Views
The problem is...
- 06/10/2010 09:11:59 AM
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Re: The problem is...
- 06/10/2010 12:40:05 PM
1148 Views
Re: The problem is...
- 06/10/2010 02:27:30 PM
1199 Views
I just read that too. It does change my attitude. If he had always paid before and truly did forget
- 06/10/2010 10:27:56 PM
1035 Views
I've been wondering how old he is too.
- 06/10/2010 10:30:20 PM
990 Views
Also they had been out of town. It was actually easy to see how it could have been overlooked.
- 06/10/2010 10:33:04 PM
1117 Views
Well it is something we don't know, though we have the family saying it
- 06/10/2010 11:05:19 PM
1184 Views
You are making an assumption that isn't proven by the evidence you use there
- 06/10/2010 11:34:05 AM
1033 Views
You are right. I did open my mouth before hearing both sides of the story. This information does
- 06/10/2010 10:30:23 PM
1150 Views
it's okay that's what the internet is good for, mindless rage ranting 
- 06/10/2010 10:32:33 PM
976 Views
- 06/10/2010 10:32:33 PM
976 Views
No. It isn't okay. I despise it when other people do that. It is worse when I catch myself doing it.
- 06/10/2010 10:45:03 PM
1025 Views
Actually
- 07/10/2010 02:03:52 AM
1100 Views
seriously. We chatted on facebook, tashy. you were MOST reasonable.
- 07/10/2010 02:12:38 AM
984 Views
What I was doing was repeating what others had said as fact rather than checking out the sources.
- 07/10/2010 02:56:21 AM
946 Views
i like my idea below of the city setting up an automatic-payment system for subscribers.
- 07/10/2010 03:02:36 AM
1149 Views
And another thing. Many rural areas choose to have volunteer fire departments. This is an option.
- 06/10/2010 05:41:20 AM
1169 Views
And people wonder why I'm not a Libertarian.
- 06/10/2010 06:03:55 AM
1114 Views
Yeah, that's why I always use the 'pragmatic libertarian' descriptor
- 06/10/2010 09:54:48 AM
1103 Views
That I can respect and understand.
- 06/10/2010 10:08:19 AM
1097 Views
What you are describing is an anarchist
- 06/10/2010 12:37:05 PM
1229 Views
It often seems to devolve into semantics.
- 06/10/2010 01:01:19 PM
1200 Views
This is not a "libertarian" fire department...
- 06/10/2010 02:14:03 PM
1047 Views
Libertarian/=non-government.
- 06/10/2010 02:16:10 PM
1057 Views
I think you mean not equal to...
- 06/10/2010 02:28:30 PM
1276 Views
In a way the article does speak to that, just not in the way I first thought.
- 07/10/2010 09:06:20 AM
1035 Views
please use != or <> or =/= not your crazy invented symbolism
- 07/10/2010 07:38:31 AM
982 Views
- 07/10/2010 07:38:31 AM
982 Views
I didn't invent it.
- 07/10/2010 09:15:23 AM
1097 Views
Or you could use the correct sign ≠ since RAFO does unicode properly
- 07/10/2010 09:51:39 AM
1058 Views
come on, you didn't learn anything from compsci in high school??
- 07/10/2010 04:09:48 PM
1046 Views
Which one does Turbo Pascal use?
- 07/10/2010 04:14:50 PM
1173 Views
Turbo Pascal is about as dead as Fortran at this point
- 07/10/2010 04:32:01 PM
988 Views
My mom still has Fortran manuals. And COBOL.
- 08/10/2010 12:02:21 PM
912 Views
Not relevant to how it acted in this case though *NM*
- 06/10/2010 02:23:06 PM
494 Views
I see no issue with it...
- 06/10/2010 02:26:46 PM
1147 Views
I'm not sure if you meant this as a reply to me? *NM*
- 06/10/2010 02:32:39 PM
599 Views
This better conveys what I was trying to say--this is a government problem
- 06/10/2010 06:27:03 PM
1070 Views
I still don't agree
- 06/10/2010 07:16:19 PM
1070 Views
Refer hence.
- 07/10/2010 09:39:42 AM
1133 Views
I was expecting SELMA Hayek next to a burning house. Perhaps in a sheer dress, backlit. 
- 07/10/2010 09:35:38 AM
1088 Views
- 07/10/2010 09:35:38 AM
1088 Views
The argument against privately run fire departments is kind of sad
- 06/10/2010 08:24:26 PM
1201 Views
if anything, it's in a businesses FAVOR to show up to unsubsribed houses, depending on their policy.
- 06/10/2010 10:24:13 PM
1106 Views
Makes you wonder why people have insurance at all when it's cheaper to pay as you go.
- 07/10/2010 09:46:57 AM
1138 Views
This a situation where you know there has to be a better way
- 06/10/2010 02:59:12 PM
1108 Views
Good luck with that.
- 07/10/2010 10:03:05 AM
1094 Views
some things should be done by the state and some by private organizations
- 07/10/2010 02:38:01 PM
1153 Views
Does the state have authority to allocate county tax dollars?
- 07/10/2010 04:03:25 PM
1082 Views
you have spent enough time in East Texas that you should know better than that
- 07/10/2010 04:26:26 PM
1150 Views
In passing I'd like to note that this is a bizarre role reversal.
- 08/10/2010 10:52:09 AM
1089 Views
- 08/10/2010 10:52:09 AM
1089 Views
I am not against government just bad government *NM*
- 08/10/2010 02:38:26 PM
493 Views
I'll drink to that.
- 08/10/2010 02:42:12 PM
1058 Views
if it wasn't I might be a democrat
*NM*
- 09/10/2010 04:43:35 PM
482 Views
*NM*
- 09/10/2010 04:43:35 PM
482 Views
Being a Democrat's SUPPOSED to mean you roll your sleeves up and fix it.
- 10/10/2010 03:06:24 AM
1100 Views
Sounds like a sound decision to me. Fuck 'em. Burning trash? Idiots. *NM*
- 06/10/2010 03:16:53 PM
522 Views
I love when people demonstrate their ignorance while calling other people stupid
- 06/10/2010 04:37:52 PM
1133 Views
Fuck your ignorant comment city boy. People all over this country still burn trash.
- 07/10/2010 01:18:15 AM
1118 Views
Re: Fuck your ignorant comment city boy. People all over this country still burn trash.
- 07/10/2010 01:31:51 PM
1095 Views
and so you think that is the way they do it everywhere?
- 07/10/2010 02:41:09 PM
1040 Views
I think something is being missed here by many.
- 06/10/2010 03:39:12 PM
1250 Views
Which is exactly why this whole contract / mayor / business talk is probably correct but insane
- 06/10/2010 04:00:44 PM
1000 Views
I don't believe a SINGLE person here has said they should not pay.
- 06/10/2010 04:50:11 PM
1033 Views
Re: I don't believe a SINGLE person here has said they should not pay.
- 06/10/2010 06:26:54 PM
1079 Views
I'm betting no one will "forget" the fee anytime soon.
- 06/10/2010 04:57:38 PM
1179 Views
there can be less disasterous incentives to pay the fee.
- 06/10/2010 05:50:01 PM
1183 Views
And what consequence(s) can/do you enforce if the after-the-fact fee isn't paid? *NM*
- 06/10/2010 05:55:38 PM
530 Views
Triple the fee.
- 06/10/2010 06:16:03 PM
1071 Views
Tripling the premium fee is definitely not enough. I would think in terms of tripling the cost.
- 13/12/2011 06:27:56 PM
1379 Views
*NM*
i'm assuming that a provision like this would be written into the policy.
- 06/10/2010 07:43:10 PM
1063 Views
So the house continues to burn while you are explaining this contract to the homeowner
- 06/10/2010 08:08:00 PM
1091 Views
No, i mean in the original policy, not in something later signed.
- 06/10/2010 10:20:46 PM
1142 Views
For starters, put a lien on their home; governments routinely do that with unpaid fees.
- 07/10/2010 10:15:21 AM
1140 Views
The whole program is an incentive.
- 06/10/2010 07:13:45 PM
1013 Views
*gigles* you said incentive... oh, you mean the pun wasn't intended? *NM*
- 09/12/2011 07:02:44 AM
507 Views
I haven't had my coffee yet.
- 09/12/2011 01:23:46 PM
951 Views
It was a bit of a stretch, "incentive" is related etymology-wise with "to kindle" (incendere) *NM*
- 09/12/2011 04:36:02 PM
503 Views
Ah, I thought of "incendiary" and wondered if that was the case (that those words were related).
- 09/12/2011 05:13:13 PM
947 Views
Re: firefighters allow home to burn to ground in rural tennessee
- 06/10/2010 06:05:45 PM
1204 Views
This.
- 06/10/2010 08:27:54 PM
1206 Views
do we know exactly when the county stopped servicing them?
- 06/10/2010 10:23:06 PM
1352 Views
They didn't have any service at all before twenty years ago. Then the city fire department offered
- 06/10/2010 11:05:37 PM
1011 Views
as a former firefighter, here's my opinion about this:
- 06/10/2010 07:09:15 PM
1248 Views
I am guessing they were told not to do it again.
- 06/10/2010 07:19:38 PM
1070 Views
Now, John, your opinion as a professional firefighter is irrelevant here.
- 06/10/2010 07:47:41 PM
1128 Views
My first question
- 06/10/2010 11:53:41 PM
1168 Views
I agree with some of what you said
- 07/10/2010 01:54:36 AM
1033 Views
*raises hand* speaking as someone who's participated in controlled prairie burning...
- 07/10/2010 02:10:56 AM
1164 Views
Why would the animals be in the house if 911 was called before the fire ever reached the house?
- 07/10/2010 12:17:47 AM
1119 Views
That whole thing does seem strange to me as well
- 07/10/2010 02:51:02 PM
1223 Views
I can't believe the stupidity being spewed in this post. The solution is readily clear.
- 07/10/2010 01:32:01 AM
1270 Views
From details others have revealed, it's really not that simple.
- 07/10/2010 10:24:39 AM
1206 Views
Bullshit. It is that simple.
- 07/10/2010 10:59:34 AM
1118 Views
Ultimately, yes, but it would almost certainly end with a lien and lawsuit with this joker.
- 07/10/2010 01:53:20 PM
1062 Views
nonsense. by waiting, they created more costs for everyone.
- 07/10/2010 02:32:36 PM
1090 Views
How so? They had to come put out one fire, period.
- 07/10/2010 03:21:51 PM
1034 Views
because if they had come out when he intially called, or even soon thereafter...
- 07/10/2010 09:07:21 PM
1161 Views
and that's not to mention the inevitable lawsuits this particular episode is going to spawn... 
*NM*
- 08/10/2010 04:52:44 AM
498 Views
*NM*
- 08/10/2010 04:52:44 AM
498 Views
Yes, they could've spared him a great deal of grief if they gave him free service.
- 08/10/2010 12:16:07 PM
1041 Views
Is it in bad taste to note that this thread is on fire...?
- 07/10/2010 12:58:48 PM
1120 Views
a FIRESTORM!
It took about two hours for the fire to spread from the barrels to the house? How did they not get
- 09/10/2010 12:49:26 AM
1015 Views
Apparently, this has happened again
- 07/12/2011 09:05:20 PM
949 Views
Funny, I was thinking of this thread when I read that this morning too *NM*
- 07/12/2011 09:24:47 PM
483 Views
" *NM*
You are all crazy posting in this old thread!
- 11/12/2011 05:05:20 AM
1120 Views
- 11/12/2011 05:05:20 AM
1120 Views