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To the extent that LadyLorraine means "at this point", I do agree with her... Sareitha Sedai Send a noteboard - 11/09/2009 05:03:34 PM
The point of competitive sports is to allow people to show that their talent, their drive and their spirit can conquer adversity. To allow Semenya to keep the gold medal does a disservice to every woman who participated in that event.

Semenya is a hermaphrodite, not a woman. If we are simply talking about social interaction and gender identity, Semenya can choose a gender and stay with it. If Semenya wants to identify as a woman, then "she" is free to do so regardless of biology. She can have further surgery if she feels it necessary.

However, we aren't talking about simple matters of gender identity. We are talking about (1) a birth condition that her parents were likely aware of, (2) a physiological advantage that is a disqualifying factor by the rules of the competition and (3) at least an inference that someone, somewhere knew or should have known that this might have been a factor yet chose to conceal it.



But I agree with everything you said as well. I don't think you can make the assumption that her parents or even she necessarily knew, given that we aren't talking about the U.S. medical system here. I find it difficult to believe, but not impossible. I think an investigation into who knew what and when ;) is necessary. If it's true that neither the athlete nor anyone else involved knew of her condition, then I think she should be permitted to keep her medal, BUT I also think she should be barred from further competition as a woman for exactly the reasons you list. If it turns out that she or anyone else was aware of this, then I would consider it cheating and want her stripped of her medal.

If you are from Betelgeuse, please have one of your Earth friends read what I've written before you respond. Or try concentrating harder.

"The trophy problem has become extreme."
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Caster Semenya has male sex organs and no womb or ovaries everynametaken - 11/09/2009 12:24:30 PM 1476 Views
I think revoking the championship and a ban at this point would be plain wrong LadyLorraine - 11/09/2009 02:01:15 PM 829 Views
Well said. Lupine - 11/09/2009 02:10:31 PM 815 Views
agreed. *NM* Avendesora - 11/09/2009 02:36:06 PM 410 Views
I agree. *NM* @my - 11/09/2009 03:20:05 PM 400 Views
I agree it's not her fault, but she shouldn't keep her championship. Aemon - 11/09/2009 03:50:06 PM 790 Views
Possibly a quibble, but just trying to clarify... Sareitha Sedai - 11/09/2009 05:15:52 PM 889 Views
It makes sense StarEnight - 13/09/2009 05:04:23 PM 836 Views
I disagree Сталин - 11/09/2009 04:09:50 PM 1153 Views
As bad as if feel for the athlete, I agree. *NM* ironclad - 11/09/2009 04:46:57 PM 383 Views
Ditto. Assuming she never knew about it, which remains to be seen. *NM* Wibble - 11/09/2009 08:08:29 PM 365 Views
To the extent that LadyLorraine means "at this point", I do agree with her... Sareitha Sedai - 11/09/2009 05:03:34 PM 884 Views
Sounds like she/he is more dude than chick..... trzaska2000 - 11/09/2009 02:42:33 PM 888 Views
not really. it only takes ONE mistake to cause her problems. LadyLorraine - 12/09/2009 03:19:06 AM 823 Views
It's not that simple with DNA either. Legolas - 12/09/2009 10:38:28 AM 915 Views
no it's not as simple as "XX" and "XY" LadyLorraine - 12/09/2009 03:02:03 PM 846 Views
I think it is a sad story random thoughts - 11/09/2009 04:34:29 PM 892 Views
I agree. everynametaken - 11/09/2009 09:20:35 PM 932 Views
I like I said, tragic random thoughts - 11/09/2009 09:34:57 PM 781 Views
I can't believe this whole thing is public Monkey - 11/09/2009 07:03:59 PM 919 Views
That's a good idea! Floffe - 11/09/2009 07:17:20 PM 831 Views
Yeah, seems fair. Medal, no record. Legolas - 11/09/2009 07:57:38 PM 770 Views
How could she not know something was different? Not developing a period would be a major sign. *NM* everynametaken - 11/09/2009 09:21:54 PM 380 Views
Not necessarily, depending on the rigors of her athletic training. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 11/09/2009 09:26:32 PM 354 Views
When do most girls get their first period? Around 12 or 13? everynametaken - 12/09/2009 07:34:23 AM 745 Views
Yes, but 14 or 15 isn't out of the ordinary *NM* Floffe - 12/09/2009 11:23:09 AM 376 Views
I didn't start until I was 17 *NM* LadyLorraine - 12/09/2009 03:02:28 PM 354 Views
That is a bit unusual. *shrugs* *NM* everynametaken - 13/09/2009 01:17:18 AM 372 Views
starting THAT late is, yes LadyLorraine - 13/09/2009 04:24:44 AM 1005 Views
There are plenty of runners who do hard training that keeps them from getting a regular period Floffe - 11/09/2009 09:29:24 PM 846 Views
I'd say so too. Periods have a lot to do with % body fat. Lupine - 12/09/2009 12:28:46 AM 929 Views
Not at the age when a girl first develops her period. everynametaken - 12/09/2009 07:36:24 AM 827 Views
You have an odd understanding of what's normal... Lupine - 12/09/2009 02:51:37 PM 839 Views
And you are still missing the point. everynametaken - 13/09/2009 01:18:54 AM 774 Views
And you're missing the point Sareitha Sedai - 13/09/2009 01:39:46 AM 809 Views
What Sareitha said. Lupine - 13/09/2009 03:50:05 AM 957 Views
people develop 30lb tumors and never go to get them checked out random thoughts - 11/09/2009 09:36:18 PM 869 Views
Well, now that you put it that way I guess I could see that. *NM* everynametaken - 12/09/2009 07:37:18 AM 359 Views
Not that rare in athletes. Tashmere - 12/09/2009 01:06:27 AM 770 Views
like i said in my first post LadyLorraine - 12/09/2009 03:25:04 AM 848 Views
I like that idea. That is the most sensible solution. *NM* Tashmere - 12/09/2009 01:07:42 AM 342 Views
This whole thing has been handled disgracefully Sidious - 12/09/2009 12:37:35 PM 945 Views
Considering that similar questions have arisen before Sareitha Sedai - 13/09/2009 01:43:18 AM 1001 Views
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