Active Users:845 Time:24/11/2024 11:26:30 AM
Well, yes, it WAS a purchase, but then, it would be. Joel Send a noteboard - 18/08/2010 03:22:23 PM
At the risk of paraphrasing He Who Must Not Be Named Online, I wouldn't expect to read a history book that said, "and so, after pitilessly slaughtering the badly outgunned Mexican Army, America had Santa Annas hands shackled in FRONT of him so he could sign the 'purchase agreement' more easily. " Certainly it would be odd for a TEXAS history book to record it that way (and we all know how important TX is in determining what the nations history books say. ) It may interest you to know that the principal Mexican objection to the Rio Grande as boundary with TX wasn't disagreement about what the peace treaty actually SAID, but the fact that Santa Anna was a bound prisoner when he signed his agreement (a fact he also raised himself to explain why he was President of Mexico AGAIN just ten years later, despite a peace treaty term that required him to forever renounce power. ) So, yeah, we cloaked our territorial gains in legal legitimacy, but, let's be honest here, after the capture of Monterrey Mexico had few options apart from full capitulation on whatever terms we deigned to offer. That we came back in another decade to "buy" more land only underscores that.

But that really goes back to the core of the question asked: It becomes permissible when you can get away with it, but whether it ever becomes truly moral may depend on whom you ask, and when. Which, if either, of those definitions fits what Dark Knight meant by "OK" only he and God can say. As a fellow Texan, I encounter this kind of sentiment regularly, and have found the best antidote to be rts: We don't take it because we don't WANT it; it wouldn't make anything better and would likely make things a lot worse (although it could get VERY interesting to see what happened globally when the US physically owned all of Mexicos substantial oil rights, but since we pioneered the practice of leasing it all to private entities pursuing a profit even if it means charging US taxpayers $4/gallon, I doubt much would change strategically. ) It's not exactly a dispassionate area to discuss, given the history (and current reality; most Mexicans will tell you they didn't HAVE a drug problem until wealthy US customers started buying contraband illegal in their own country; they certainly didn't lose national political leaders over it. )
Honorbound and honored to be Bonded to Mahtaliel Sedai
Last First in wotmania Chat
Slightly better than chocolate.

Love still can't be coerced.
Please Don't Eat the Newbies!

LoL. Be well, RAFOlk.
Reply to message
At what point does it become ok to take over a country? - 16/08/2010 04:25:09 PM 1229 Views
why would we want to make Mexico our problem? *NM* - 16/08/2010 04:30:48 PM 330 Views
Well, generally it's no longer seen as acceptable. - 16/08/2010 04:38:11 PM 863 Views
RevoluciĆ³n! *NM* - 16/08/2010 04:47:55 PM 302 Views
When it spills your pint and eyes up your woman? - 16/08/2010 04:53:29 PM 742 Views
When they get on your nerves or have something you want, preferably both - 16/08/2010 05:04:10 PM 761 Views
I agree we should attack Canada instead - 16/08/2010 05:19:48 PM 755 Views
west point? *NM* - 16/08/2010 08:56:58 PM 273 Views
Well take over and intervene are two totally different things - 16/08/2010 09:00:50 PM 949 Views
never *NM* - 16/08/2010 09:05:03 PM 309 Views
Not even Hitler's Germany? (if he never went to war but just stayed put) Reply to Yuna *NM* - 16/08/2010 09:24:41 PM 401 Views
If he had never gone to war, that would also have meant no Holocaust... *NM* - 16/08/2010 09:28:16 PM 304 Views
Dachau opened in '33, Nuremburg Laws were '35 - 16/08/2010 09:36:59 PM 687 Views
Ok that's what I was thinking - 16/08/2010 09:45:51 PM 695 Views
Uh, yeah, see, there's a difference between "blaming" and "exterminating". - 16/08/2010 09:52:37 PM 732 Views
Re: Uh, yeah, see, there's a difference between "blaming" and "exterminating". - 16/08/2010 09:54:29 PM 662 Views
I don't know if there's really anything to specifically compare it to... - 16/08/2010 10:00:59 PM 830 Views
Also, perhaps someone should just invoke the (variation of the) Godwin Law and stop this whole thing - 16/08/2010 10:02:23 PM 737 Views
Ah, - 16/08/2010 10:04:39 PM 643 Views
I second the motion to invoke Godwin's Law for closure... - 16/08/2010 10:11:22 PM 782 Views
Perhaps - 16/08/2010 09:46:55 PM 646 Views
Well, you'll note I didn't make that causal relation you attribute to me. - 16/08/2010 09:55:39 PM 773 Views
The Dachau follow up was bookkeeping - 16/08/2010 10:05:35 PM 722 Views
The US already took half of Mexico, so why not the other half? - 16/08/2010 09:57:56 PM 771 Views
"Took" is an unfriendly word, we purchased it *NM* - 16/08/2010 10:21:58 PM 310 Views
yes after a messy political and physical "conflict" - 16/08/2010 10:53:22 PM 742 Views
There was also the Gasdsen Purchase - 17/08/2010 12:30:21 AM 685 Views
The Gadsden Purchase was a pittance and an afterthought, as I'm sure you're aware. - 18/08/2010 12:36:24 PM 605 Views
It is fairly large, but yes - 18/08/2010 02:21:25 PM 681 Views
Well, yes, it WAS a purchase, but then, it would be. - 18/08/2010 03:22:23 PM 1123 Views
and why did it belong to Mexico to begin with? *NM* - 17/08/2010 01:28:28 AM 343 Views
same way it seems to be the way most people who own the Americas came to own it. - 17/08/2010 01:46:49 AM 561 Views
At least we took the time to conquer it - 18/08/2010 05:20:57 PM 881 Views
well they were not using it *NM* - 17/08/2010 01:27:47 AM 287 Views
Once you solved all your own problems, I'm sure. *NM* - 16/08/2010 10:58:28 PM 302 Views
We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels. - 17/08/2010 12:58:37 AM 583 Views
Re: We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels. - 17/08/2010 02:39:11 AM 653 Views
Re: We should seal our border and peform drone strikes on cartels. - 17/08/2010 03:34:59 AM 816 Views
I think maybe we've had enough of nation building for a while *NM* - 17/08/2010 02:45:22 AM 293 Views

Reply to Message