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Simples snoopcester Send a noteboard - 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM
I am not sure what you mean by a clear separation of secular marriage and religious marriage. Do you believe that the resistance to gay marriage is purely religious? How would change marriage to create that separation?


No and it would completely undermine one of the most commonly used arguments of those who are opposed for religious reasons - suddenly it wouldn't be something they can claim is related to their religious marriage. It would be something clearly seperate.

You are not considered legally married simply because you stood in front of priest and said some vows and you can easily be married without a priest. I have been married for over a decade now and we never stood in front of a priest. A priest is just one of a number of people who can officiate a state licensed marriage.


I am well aware of that (not the details of your married life, of course, since I couldn't care less) and I have no idea what your point is.

Stopping priest from officiating weddings would infringe on millions of people's rights and accomplish nothing but to convince them that their belief system was being destroyed to accommodate the gay life style and they would be right. (not to mention political impossible) Marriage and religion are both pillars of our social structure so I am not sure how you would accomplish a separation since right now it is really just a symbolic relationship. You may not like the fact they are pillars of our society but you are tilting windmills if you think you can change that.


If you look upwards, you might see my point flying over your head. I suppose you were too busy making things up to notice it though:)
*MySmiley*

Robert Graves "There is no money in poetry, but then there is no poetry in money, either."

Henning Mankell "We must defend the open society, because if we start locking our doors, if we let fear decide, the person who committed the act of terror will win"
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Gay Marriage MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:19 AM 1834 Views
I disagree on the latter part snoopcester - 12/08/2010 12:04:15 PM 1209 Views
I follow your point... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 12:14:17 PM 1192 Views
Suspect you would find plenty of denominations that would argue with you rather strenuously. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 12:24:55 PM 1188 Views
See, that's what I'm saying... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:37:26 PM 1152 Views
She didn't say that gays ought not be married. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 07:45:37 PM 1010 Views
You didn't read my post. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:10:21 PM 1065 Views
Actually, you didn't read my post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:23:54 PM 1105 Views
Um, you're wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:37:13 PM 1114 Views
Re: Um, you're wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:44:17 PM 1072 Views
Boy Scouts of America v. Dale. And no, he described it accurately. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 09:53:31 PM 563 Views
You're still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:54:55 PM 1209 Views
Re: You're still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:58:26 PM 1065 Views
Again, you are still wrong. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:04:42 PM 1113 Views
Re: Again, you are still wrong. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:17:13 PM 961 Views
Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:30:52 PM 1210 Views
My clubs are cooler than yours. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:35:13 PM 578 Views
I play golf with mine. *NM* Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:43:01 PM 588 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:40:55 PM 1117 Views
Are you a member of one of those churches? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:44:12 PM 1132 Views
Also also: Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:46:05 PM 1142 Views
Re: Are you a member of one of those churches? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:49:44 PM 1045 Views
Re: Wrong definition of "club" Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:47:20 PM 1151 Views
I don't think he means that kind of club. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:31:41 PM 1026 Views
Also MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:02:44 PM 1159 Views
And wrong again. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:08:24 PM 1183 Views
Not so quick! MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:21:31 PM 1019 Views
Yes, so quick! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:32:13 PM 966 Views
Let's be reasonable here MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:41:53 PM 1076 Views
Why do you get to judge? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:48:57 PM 1103 Views
I don't MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:53:21 PM 998 Views
OK. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:58:22 PM 1109 Views
Re: OK. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:03:50 PM 1041 Views
Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 11:14:03 PM 1004 Views
Re: Here's the thing: your opinion seems to be informed by the Roman Catholic Faith. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:23:35 PM 1121 Views
Then please stop. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:01:05 PM 1078 Views
What's wrong with discussion? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:05:48 PM 1018 Views
Discussion? Nothing. Your assertions about other people's views, something. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:09:48 PM 1046 Views
Really? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:13:46 PM 1077 Views
Yes. That is incorrect. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:18:05 PM 1039 Views
What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:12:54 PM 918 Views
Re: What, because the expressive message of scouting is anti-gay? MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:23:36 PM 1065 Views
Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:36:48 PM 1022 Views
Re: Well then that brings us back to my question, which you have yet to answer. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:46:22 PM 1135 Views
Apparently you do believe that you are more qualified Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:57:00 PM 1008 Views
You are wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 11:11:37 PM 858 Views
Really? Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:19:10 PM 947 Views
Not entirely true either... or, well, true as far as Brown goes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:08:42 PM 1030 Views
Heh... we discuss restaurants a post or two over there.. ---> Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:10:26 PM 1126 Views
Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:38:33 PM 1104 Views
Re: Actually, I did. And since everyone else told you you're wrong about that I didn't see any need MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:55:05 PM 1037 Views
Gah. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:59:45 PM 989 Views
Yes yes yes. It was ungracious. I got bored. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:03:17 PM 541 Views
What a mature response. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:11:00 PM 1171 Views
Yes. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:21:38 PM 1111 Views
Re: Yes. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:35:51 PM 1055 Views
I can't speak for Rebekah, but I don't think the issue is that your points are invalid per se. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:22:30 PM 1010 Views
I think my point was unclear in that post MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:55:34 PM 1081 Views
It seems that by your (to me nebulous) definition Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 11:05:01 PM 1084 Views
Re: I think my point was unclear in that post Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:58:28 AM 989 Views
+1 Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:16:24 AM 876 Views
Hehe Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:46:25 AM 928 Views
Um Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:46:43 PM 1136 Views
That's a very good question. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:49:05 PM 532 Views
So good it doesn't even need an answer, apparently *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 10:26:41 PM 573 Views
So good I responded to it someplace else. *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:56:05 PM 467 Views
It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:29:24 PM 975 Views
Re: It makes no sense MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:39:25 PM 1054 Views
Re: It makes no sense Camilla - 12/08/2010 07:41:02 PM 1127 Views
It's not sanctioning anything MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:25:44 PM 1080 Views
Re: It's not sanctioning anything Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:28:45 PM 1050 Views
Nonsense snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:35:25 PM 1002 Views
Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... Kronin al'Sulc - 12/08/2010 09:08:53 PM 967 Views
Re: Yes, but while marrying two murderers does not ensure that they will continue to murder... MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 09:42:21 PM 1080 Views
Suspect you've not read that either. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:43:32 PM 1013 Views
What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:45:33 PM 1136 Views
Infant baptism, obviously. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 09:51:48 PM 1128 Views
*NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:53:17 PM 378 Views
*groan* I forgot that one! Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:09:07 PM 1082 Views
Re: What other church sanctioned circumstances encourage continued sin? Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:04:02 AM 1072 Views
Wow, it's almost like an entire denomination believes that! *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 03:41:07 PM 516 Views
really? Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:42:42 PM 948 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:43:26 PM 878 Views
Yeah, that's the Roman Catholic basis against masturbation and contraception. *NM* Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 04:12:00 PM 515 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:22:58 PM 925 Views
Which is interesting Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 04:28:09 PM 911 Views
Yes Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:29:25 PM 895 Views
Original poster. *NM* Rebekah - 13/08/2010 04:32:18 PM 570 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:34:30 PM 920 Views
Dude....please at least have a working knowledge of the Bible before you spout off. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:47:13 PM 957 Views
I like the part in 1 Corinthians (is it chapter 6?) Rebekah - 12/08/2010 10:49:55 PM 854 Views
Ya know?!? Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:55:27 PM 965 Views
I'm not sure you're correct there. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:33:02 PM 1071 Views
Re: I'm not sure you're correct there. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:40:16 PM 1084 Views
There is a difference... Dannymac - 12/08/2010 09:02:20 PM 1118 Views
No you don't. snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:16:52 PM 1100 Views
That's another concern Isaac - 12/08/2010 12:39:53 PM 1160 Views
Not quite my point snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:19:50 PM 1023 Views
secular marriage is decoupled from religious marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 02:50:43 PM 1148 Views
Simple, require the legal and religious marriage to be performed separately. Legolas - 12/08/2010 02:58:43 PM 985 Views
And they are, in fact, separate right now in the US. They're just called the same thing. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:29:26 PM 1033 Views
It's not the same name that's confusing so much as the single ceremony. Or so it seems to me. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:37:20 PM 1041 Views
I disagree. I think giving the legal institution the same name as the sacrament is the problem. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 03:59:43 PM 1055 Views
What in the world would that accomplish? random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:44:32 PM 1069 Views
Provide some much-needed clarity, evidently. Legolas - 12/08/2010 03:49:33 PM 919 Views
the problem is it would be changing a centuries old tradition.. random thoughts - 12/08/2010 04:26:47 PM 930 Views
heheheheheheheHAHAHAHEHEHehehehehahheeh*cough* Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:55:09 PM 939 Views
thats OK I am sure you will get over it random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:22:08 PM 975 Views
Just guessing, but I think it was the "centuries old tradition" that set off the giggle fit. Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:25:38 PM 1098 Views
Really? I was hoping for something better random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:06:00 PM 1028 Views
So government recognition makes your religion meaningful? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:11:54 PM 1115 Views
not my religion I'm agnostic random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:34:40 PM 978 Views
OK, but the point remains the same. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:51:59 PM 1090 Views
Of course it would random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:10:03 PM 1162 Views
I'm not far left, thank you very much. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:20:31 PM 587 Views
no but your are European and that slants your views *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:36:01 PM 578 Views
Sure, but in this case it has little to do with left or right. Legolas - 12/08/2010 10:40:42 PM 1033 Views
that is what I said when I metioned you were European *NM* random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:11:31 PM 580 Views
Simples snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:30:31 PM 1060 Views
there are about 140 post ranging from boyscouts to infant babtism random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:57:46 PM 1057 Views
So. snoopcester - 14/08/2010 01:27:59 AM 896 Views
sorry I responded I forgot what a tool you are. my bad random thoughts - 14/08/2010 02:48:57 AM 1415 Views
You spout some utter gibberish then dish out insults when called on it? Very funny snoopcester - 15/08/2010 12:47:04 PM 1240 Views
Agreed *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 03:45:04 PM 465 Views
I love you, Camilla lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:02:15 PM 857 Views
Re: I love you, Camilla Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:04:10 PM 1047 Views
Is there an all above option? *NM* lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:23:24 PM 621 Views
Naturally. Camilla - 12/08/2010 04:25:14 PM 1037 Views
I know I do *NM* LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:17:35 PM 544 Views
Another thing MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:42:21 PM 1123 Views
A couple of things SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 12:58:09 PM 1028 Views
I disagree MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:47:26 PM 1148 Views
Well, you're within your rights to certainly SilverWarder - 12/08/2010 08:24:30 PM 1121 Views
there is major flaw in your argument random thoughts - 12/08/2010 03:31:45 PM 1164 Views
Re: there is major flaw in your argument lyringlas - 12/08/2010 04:01:32 PM 1048 Views
I should clarify that I support gay marriage random thoughts - 12/08/2010 05:20:36 PM 984 Views
One point about Prop. 8 Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:38:55 PM 1027 Views
I know that is the commonl;y held belief but I thinkit is wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:32:58 PM 949 Views
Religious institutions, though, pushed hard to pass it. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:42:33 PM 1035 Views
that doesn’t translate into people voting for religious reasons random thoughts - 12/08/2010 11:19:48 PM 855 Views
Bigotry and Fear that are supported and encouraged by religious institutions. Phelix - 12/08/2010 11:32:30 PM 1016 Views
there are major flaws in your argument MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:51:52 PM 1126 Views
Women can't be priests in the Catholic church. Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:00:24 PM 806 Views
Hehe. You beat me by 6 seconds. *NM* Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:03:28 PM 495 Views
Great minds and all. *NM* Sareitha Sedai - 12/08/2010 08:06:01 PM 500 Views
I was writing a reply to this post... lyringlas - 12/08/2010 03:51:01 PM 1050 Views
I feel your pain *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:52:28 PM 579 Views
Forcing religious institutions to marry gay couples is hideously unconstitutional. Tom - 12/08/2010 04:18:59 PM 1075 Views
100% agreed. LadyLorraine - 12/08/2010 05:05:35 PM 1130 Views
This. *NM* Ghavrel - 12/08/2010 07:36:57 PM 424 Views
You are absolutely wrong MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:57:19 PM 1069 Views
By that token Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:00:30 PM 950 Views
My God.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:49:18 PM 1017 Views
no You are absolutely wrong random thoughts - 12/08/2010 10:08:57 PM 958 Views
Well, that was horrifyingly stupid. Ghavrel - 13/08/2010 12:57:46 AM 1041 Views
Your arguments are so specious and stupid I don't know where to begin. Tom - 13/08/2010 05:04:17 AM 989 Views
I am a Christian who wholeheartedly supports Gay Marriage. Seriana Sedai - 12/08/2010 06:49:28 PM 1155 Views
Fair enough. MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 08:01:37 PM 1086 Views
Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:11:15 PM 985 Views
Because "homophobic", like "xenophobic", has shifted a bit in meaning... Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:33:56 PM 1065 Views
So then.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 07:39:24 PM 992 Views
Well, strongly anti-gay, yes. Legolas - 12/08/2010 07:43:40 PM 842 Views
Homophobic is generally "anti-gay" or "anti-queer"... Phelix - 12/08/2010 07:46:22 PM 1144 Views
Because your reasons for being against gay marriage are so specious *NM* MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 07:59:42 PM 595 Views
I particularly enjoy the implied assumption that your a good enough judge of my motivations. *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:24:14 PM 562 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Sidious - 12/08/2010 08:04:24 PM 1137 Views
+1 Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:06:19 PM 1175 Views
Stop with the pile on Camilla. Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:22:35 PM 1102 Views
You would have said nothing if I had just said "agreed" Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:27:33 PM 925 Views
Which speaks highly of you.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:36:30 PM 1103 Views
This is being very petty. *NM* Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:41:26 PM 550 Views
As opposed to a snarky +1 comment? *NM* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:45:02 PM 570 Views
It's not snarky. Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:47:47 PM 1040 Views
Its a +1 shorthand comment... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:52:04 PM 1330 Views
Wow. Those two characters allowed you to read Camilla's motivations? Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:54:25 PM 958 Views
*shrug* Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:58:42 PM 1165 Views
Yes, I am terribly selfish Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:10:54 AM 945 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:13:07 PM 1137 Views
Re: Why do people equate.... Camilla - 12/08/2010 09:26:41 PM 1045 Views
LOL Rebekah - 12/08/2010 09:42:32 PM 1017 Views
Re: LOL Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:12:29 AM 965 Views
you are exactly why the state needs to make a clear seperation between the secular and religious snoopcester - 12/08/2010 09:33:22 PM 1017 Views
Ok, so if the state does then... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 09:44:31 PM 955 Views
No, marriage started because of property. Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:59:14 PM 1051 Views
So then two things come to mind... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:04:39 PM 1028 Views
Only two? Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:27:08 PM 1025 Views
Is this the same guy... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:43:02 PM 939 Views
I thought the cow died in an accident, but yes... that guy. Phelix - 12/08/2010 10:58:46 PM 1010 Views
That's a little difficult to do SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:19:32 PM 1186 Views
Re: That's a little difficult to do Camilla - 13/08/2010 03:30:14 PM 1054 Views
Oh, I hope not SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 04:19:47 PM 1053 Views
I may be wrong Camilla - 13/08/2010 04:24:28 PM 1006 Views
Property isn't just agricultural. Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:11:12 PM 936 Views
True enough SilverWarder - 16/08/2010 03:12:31 PM 1250 Views
yes but about half of the old testament deals with protecting those rights random thoughts - 13/08/2010 05:16:09 PM 1015 Views
The relationship between religion and rain go even farther back... Phelix - 13/08/2010 06:15:32 PM 1000 Views
to me it is a beside the point when it comes to the law random thoughts - 13/08/2010 06:25:50 PM 1028 Views
moot, not mute Camilla - 13/08/2010 08:48:04 PM 1250 Views
damn random thoughts - 13/08/2010 08:52:23 PM 1094 Views
Actually, I agree with that snoopcester - 12/08/2010 10:01:37 PM 902 Views
See, now this, I could deal with.... Jeordam - 12/08/2010 10:06:15 PM 900 Views
So is it that you are hung up on the name then? SilverWarder - 13/08/2010 03:29:02 PM 970 Views
Rights.... Phelix - 12/08/2010 09:34:45 PM 989 Views
See, what I don't get is why gay people care about jh - 12/08/2010 08:18:45 PM 1011 Views
It's mostly about getting married in the eyes of the state. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:42:52 PM 1128 Views
I'm fairly sure Jonte was referring only to the "churches have to accept gay marriages" bit. *NM* Legolas - 12/08/2010 08:44:52 PM 599 Views
Hmmm... Then I shall reply to that part here. Phelix - 12/08/2010 08:50:10 PM 1126 Views
Oh, so it is an american thing, then. *NM* jh - 14/08/2010 08:58:28 AM 541 Views
Starting again Camilla - 12/08/2010 08:23:08 PM 1098 Views
Not at all MalkierKnight - 12/08/2010 10:58:45 PM 1039 Views
Re: Not at all Camilla - 13/08/2010 09:14:48 AM 834 Views
Agreed *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 10:21:06 AM 435 Views
Oh dear Camilla - 13/08/2010 10:30:45 AM 949 Views
But what if I like being selfish and evil? *NM* snoopcester - 13/08/2010 11:25:01 AM 565 Views
Well, being English might help you get away with it Camilla - 13/08/2010 11:26:17 AM 827 Views
I'm curious Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:49:15 PM 995 Views
Camilla - 13/08/2010 01:54:19 PM 886 Views
Okay, good. Sareitha Sedai - 13/08/2010 01:58:14 PM 1057 Views
I suppose you also think that religious Pacifists should be eligible for the draft? Dannymac - 12/08/2010 08:42:21 PM 1107 Views
very nicely said *NM* random thoughts - 13/08/2010 02:16:53 PM 449 Views
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