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Re: Mmm, but when you're strictly discussing marriage Isaac Send a noteboard - 10/08/2010 01:24:06 AM
and discussing it as a legal and romantic bond between individuals (i don't mean romantic as in roses and candles, but that sort of love as opposed to familial or friendly love), then there's not that much wrong with incest or polygamy either.


Good honest answer. Probably best to limit it to a legal bond, since enforcing love as an aspect of marriage is effectively impossible, a mass invasion of privacy, and from a traditional POV often not the case, lots of 'traditional' marriages were basically just real estate deals and/or breeding compacts between families as you know. As various components of marriage go, love's mostly irrelevant to gay marriage anyway since barring a very few fiery eyed zealots no one seems to think gays can't love each other.

In the end, I believe marriage should be about bringing people who love each other into one whole and complete family, with all the various benefits families tend to have. Of course, an incestuous marriage would be rather redundant in this respect and defeat the purpose. Anyway, if this was merely about titles (wife/husband) and ceremonies, then this wouldn't be an issue at all, so I think that an incestuous marriage is a different situation as your family is already your family.


Titles tend to be important to people, since both Rush Limbaugh and Barrack Obama agree that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed but civil unions should be, would tend to make ya wonder what the debate is over, if not titles. I do happen to believe your definition, essentially bringing people together to form a new family node, ideally a loving one, is the preferred one, but pretty much all three - gay, poly, incest - and loveless marriages or elderly marriages fly into technical difficulties on that score. What I'm getting at with my OP is that virtually none of the objections or arguments in favor of just about any of these can't also apply to one of the others, and in part because there really is no set defined standard to get married. Incest being the weirdest of course, because as you say there is already a pre-existing love situation and pre-existing established titles and traditional relations, grandparents and aunts/uncles are regular involved with kids, often as a primary caregiver and living in the same home. However, that interference with pre-existing traditional roles that would apply to incest also flips onto gay marriage, there is not to my knowledge any tradition of it, even though obviously history is packed with examples of prolonged gay or non-romantic same gender family partnerships. We've also got that most 'love-centered' relations between people fall as romantic, family, or friend bonds, clearly most of us believe romantic and friend, and family and friend, are not only not mutually exclusive but added positives. So again, you get stuck with for/against arguments that would seem to apply equally well to other options.
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.
- Albert Einstein

King of Cairhien 20-7-2
Chancellor of the Landsraad, Archduke of Is'Mod
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Let's ban all Christian Marriage. - 07/08/2010 06:36:13 AM 1533 Views
Nice satire, but it raises another point for me. - 07/08/2010 07:20:49 AM 962 Views
One small problem... - 07/08/2010 08:02:34 AM 981 Views
Re tax. - 07/08/2010 08:47:22 AM 1014 Views
That seems sensible to me. - 09/08/2010 08:13:26 PM 857 Views
Not sure what you mean by "demoted." - 07/08/2010 03:50:02 PM 1016 Views
Nice. *NM* - 07/08/2010 08:58:20 AM 584 Views
That would only be appropriate if Christians wanted to ban secular unions of normal people. - 07/08/2010 11:51:29 AM 1185 Views
Hey, look! There was a point over there! - 07/08/2010 03:46:41 PM 995 Views
Who else should make those decisions? - 07/08/2010 08:00:39 PM 945 Views
I'd totally... - 08/08/2010 04:14:15 AM 910 Views
I'd totally... - 08/08/2010 06:17:30 AM 1056 Views
You'd defend this idiot? *NM* - 08/08/2010 06:40:34 AM 474 Views
Indeed - 08/08/2010 06:43:53 AM 994 Views
I used to think Joel was the biggest rambler on this site. I am seriously reconsidering. - 08/08/2010 05:24:56 AM 981 Views
And my assessment of one poster as the most content-poor, non-contributing slug is unchanged - 08/08/2010 07:17:02 PM 894 Views
Um, ok. *NM* - 10/08/2010 12:48:19 AM 475 Views
*Shakes Head* - 08/08/2010 06:23:47 AM 863 Views
I highly doubt Cannoli is "scared" of homosexuals *NM* - 08/08/2010 06:29:54 AM 504 Views
Perhaps not in the physical sense. - 08/08/2010 06:35:53 AM 957 Views
Re: Perhaps not in the physical sense. - 08/08/2010 06:46:56 AM 919 Views
Gah! You did that on purpose! - 09/08/2010 01:05:13 AM 873 Views
whoops *NM* - 09/08/2010 02:22:49 AM 438 Views
Re: *Shakes Head* - 08/08/2010 07:43:11 PM 909 Views
This must be the "thought out reaction" I've heard so much about. - 08/08/2010 10:45:59 PM 854 Views
You cannot be that stupid. - 11/08/2010 03:10:55 PM 1140 Views
Incorrect. Genders are not treated equally. - 11/08/2010 07:53:00 PM 1228 Views
all you need is enough support to pass an amendment - 08/08/2010 02:46:08 PM 849 Views
A lot of the arguments would seem to justify polygamy and incest too - 08/08/2010 11:51:24 PM 884 Views
And what is wrong with polygamy? *NM* - 09/08/2010 10:36:53 AM 476 Views
Did I say there was anything? - 09/08/2010 11:03:10 AM 1001 Views
Plolygamy and incest are not on the same level of bad. - 09/08/2010 11:00:07 AM 922 Views
Is that assumption valid? - 09/08/2010 11:36:26 AM 875 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid? - 09/08/2010 11:46:42 AM 857 Views
Re: Is that assumption valid? - 09/08/2010 12:07:22 PM 968 Views
Not really - 09/08/2010 01:20:46 PM 827 Views
Re: Not really - 09/08/2010 01:27:04 PM 957 Views
Re: Not really - 09/08/2010 02:14:43 PM 838 Views
Re: Not really - 09/08/2010 03:06:31 PM 983 Views
Spoken like someone who does not have to insure an employee's six wives. - 11/08/2010 03:11:57 PM 998 Views
... - 11/08/2010 03:22:50 PM 878 Views
Mmm, but when you're strictly discussing marriage - 09/08/2010 06:13:30 PM 1013 Views
Re: Mmm, but when you're strictly discussing marriage - 10/08/2010 01:24:06 AM 824 Views
Now I think about it, I'm not sure. - 10/08/2010 04:09:43 PM 938 Views
Re: Now I think about it, I'm not sure. - 10/08/2010 06:12:39 PM 827 Views
Great post Danny - 09/08/2010 08:22:27 PM 694 Views
It should be noted again... - 09/08/2010 08:59:32 PM 989 Views
and how is it not a right? - 09/08/2010 09:19:12 PM 863 Views
My definition of rights... - 09/08/2010 10:47:16 PM 988 Views
mmm, but the UN has legally stated marriage as a right. - 10/08/2010 02:52:03 AM 753 Views
+1 - 10/08/2010 03:11:22 AM 1040 Views
Article 16 probably not a great example - 10/08/2010 03:44:04 AM 852 Views
You could just as easily move the emphasis... - 10/08/2010 04:08:46 AM 976 Views
If we need a more specific resolution... - 10/08/2010 04:22:12 AM 1160 Views
It doesn't say a man can only marry a woman or vice versa, though. - 10/08/2010 04:24:17 AM 851 Views
It also doesn't say they can - 10/08/2010 04:41:18 AM 855 Views
You're missing the point. It's not about gay marriage. - 10/08/2010 11:20:59 AM 844 Views
No, I got that, I'm pointing out how it does so - 10/08/2010 01:47:00 PM 869 Views
To clarify for you - 10/08/2010 05:36:14 AM 777 Views
The UNSC is actually the UN's enforcement body... - 10/08/2010 07:16:31 PM 1222 Views
What the UN thinks is *completely* worthless.... - 10/08/2010 06:43:15 PM 785 Views
and the Constitution dictates nothing about marriage. *NM* - 10/08/2010 11:46:24 PM 457 Views
That means it is up to the people. And they say "No." *NM* - 11/08/2010 03:13:12 PM 462 Views
No, but it does dictate things about rights and discrimination - 12/08/2010 03:48:02 PM 1030 Views
The actual ruling on Prop 8 specifices marriage as a freedom, not a right. - 10/08/2010 12:02:17 AM 929 Views
Out of curiosity, what would you say to using the Ninth Amendment, possibly in conjunction... - 10/08/2010 12:20:19 AM 1005 Views
I agree - 10/08/2010 06:11:19 PM 733 Views
Yeah but this can't be used to prove that it IS a right... - 10/08/2010 07:30:57 PM 1084 Views
Note it all you want... - 10/08/2010 06:43:53 AM 726 Views
The best one yet. - 10/08/2010 07:59:17 PM 973 Views
Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane - 10/08/2010 08:49:24 PM 849 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane - 10/08/2010 09:03:11 PM 957 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane - 11/08/2010 04:35:03 PM 837 Views
Re: Yeah, I'd agree that's pretty insane - 11/08/2010 04:41:23 PM 959 Views
Hmm - been a long time since I read my copy of the graphic novel - 11/08/2010 05:06:47 PM 936 Views

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