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My social capital at this site is pretty low, so I don't mind admitting that I agree with MK. Aemon Send a noteboard - 28/06/2010 04:12:42 PM
Legally you may have the same right to the road as cars, but anyone with common sense can tell otherwise. Pedaling down a road meant for vehicles that can travel up to 100 miles and hour is just silly and stupid. It'd be like flying a hang glider in front of an airplane and demanding the pilot to slow down. You know why cyclists are kicked off sidewalks? Because people are walking about as fast to cyclists as cyclists are to cars. It just so happens we have to let the cyclists pedal along somewhere. Cyclists shouldn't be allowed to pedal their bikes anywhere but lanes designated for cyclists, to say you have as much right to the road as cars is like saying a hang glider has as much right to a "sky" road as an airplane.


Essentially what you're saying is "Because I am encased a ton of metal that could kill you as easily as swatting a fly, and you are unprotected and vulnerable, I don't have to obey the laws that are put in place to protect you from me". If you think that's morally acceptable, then you are seriously lacking in human decency.


Let me just start by saying, holy crap, man. He wasn't saying that at all. You're putting words in his mouth that he never said, and they're not very nice ones either. Why would you assume that, because he doesn't like bikers on the road, he thinks it's ok to flaunt the law and willfully endanger cyclists? If you really think that's how he feels, you need to seriously examine the concept of human decency yourself.

Now, antagonistic paragraph out of the way, let me tell you why I agree with him. In short: roads are made for cars. You know that, I know that. We can argue the point if you're in the mood for it, but hopefully we can just agree that roads are pretty obviously designed for cars. However, it's quite true that the law also permits cyclists to utilize the roads. Too, good citizens have to obey such laws, and the vast, VAST majority of us do.

Keeping that in mind, let's look at some of your arguments/statements/whatever.

  • You say that MK is "simply wrong" because the law doesn't reflect his opinion. That's a load o' processed lunchmeat. Laws are made for all sorts of reasons by all manner of people, and are as fallible as everything else in the world. We obey them because they create order, but that does not mean they are universally right, proper, and correct.
  • MK says bikers shouldn't ride where bike-specific infrastructure doesn't exist. You say they often have nowhere better to ride, and act as if that's clear evidence of why they belong on the road. However, it's not. Cyclists don't have to ride at all. Obviously, this is not an attractive option, but it's not the motorist's fault. The lack of proper infrastructure is not reason enough for bicyclist's to needlessly endanger themselves, and other motorists (I'll get to that in a sec).
  • You say motorists endanger bikers. This is true, and unfortunate. However, bikers also endanger even the most safety conscious of motorists. While you're riding along on the side of the road, trying to give cars their space, cars are inching around you, moving into the other lane so as not to hit you. Cars in the other lane are moving off onto the shoulder / side of the road trying to avoid the displaced traffic. All of that isdangerous. Maybe traffic shouldn't pass bikers at all, and should just accept that everyone in a car should get to their destination as slow as the biker ahead? Perhaps. But long traffic jams are also dangerous, increasing the risk of rear end collisions, rash actions by unconscionable drivers, etc.
  • You say that bikes are a "mode of transportation," and that if everyone rode them, the world would be a better place. You also say this news hasn't reached America yet. And you're right. ;) The vast majority of America is designed for cars. This is bad. The solution, however, is to make America more bike-friendly, not to force bikes into the system where they don't belong. Bikers who insist on riding on roads not designed for them inconvenience everyone (except themselves) and put everyone (including themselves) at higher risk of accident and/or injury.

Anyway. I'll try to wrap up here by saying that I know where you're coming from, and I understand why you're frustrated with inconsiderate drivers. Personally, I'm extremely cautious of cyclists on the road, and it's for that very reason that I wish they'd keep themselves off of it. Does the law say they can be there? Yes it does, which is why I don't yell at them or give them any grief. However, does the law make sense when it inconveniences and endangers dozens of people for the sake of one? Not to me it doesn't. Therefore I agree with MK, and I think your extremely negative response to him (particularly when he worded things fairly nicely, and specifically apologized for any offense) was a bit unjust.
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I got screamed at by a motorist while riding my bicycle today - 28/06/2010 05:44:45 AM 1670 Views
Ummm - 28/06/2010 06:01:19 AM 1291 Views
Let me guess. You live in an American suburb. *NM* - 28/06/2010 06:12:24 AM 549 Views
Sorry, but no. - 28/06/2010 06:17:20 AM 1091 Views
I think you missed the part... - 28/06/2010 06:22:35 AM 1039 Views
Now that I've calmed down a bit, I'm going to actually address your points. - 28/06/2010 12:16:10 PM 1411 Views
hey now! - 28/06/2010 01:18:16 PM 946 Views
See apology below. *NM* - 29/06/2010 08:34:17 AM 568 Views
it's okay dude i was just giving you a hard time *NM* - 29/06/2010 09:24:56 AM 557 Views
I understand that what he said offended you - 28/06/2010 04:11:57 PM 1173 Views
My social capital at this site is pretty low, so I don't mind admitting that I agree with MK. - 28/06/2010 04:12:42 PM 1044 Views
This point: - 28/06/2010 06:37:32 PM 1148 Views
Not in the United States. - 28/06/2010 07:25:56 PM 1142 Views
Highways are, of course, a different matter. - 28/06/2010 07:32:50 PM 1098 Views
I know - 28/06/2010 07:34:04 PM 1208 Views
Re: I know - 28/06/2010 08:27:04 PM 1064 Views
Re: I know - 28/06/2010 08:38:14 PM 1187 Views
That makes me mad. - 28/06/2010 08:46:58 PM 1171 Views
Don't be mad - 28/06/2010 08:52:47 PM 1009 Views
Re: I know - 28/06/2010 09:15:22 PM 1153 Views
To your last question: Arlington County, VA - 30/06/2010 03:29:55 AM 984 Views
It is illegal to drive on the shoulder. - 29/06/2010 09:43:40 AM 1178 Views
Maybe I should have said "modern roads." - 28/06/2010 08:20:55 PM 1152 Views
Perhaps. - 28/06/2010 08:36:15 PM 1200 Views
I think we just disagree on the necessity is all. - 28/06/2010 09:00:44 PM 978 Views
Matters of degree, I suppose. - 28/06/2010 09:07:40 PM 989 Views
Yes, because that cyclist is SUCH a hazard to you in your car. - 29/06/2010 01:03:05 AM 1129 Views
The central issue is people. - 29/06/2010 09:52:22 AM 1109 Views
you keep talking about cyclists on highways as if it applied to all roads. - 29/06/2010 02:37:31 PM 1165 Views
There are TWO equally important points there: - 30/06/2010 01:15:17 AM 1167 Views
Re: I think we just disagree on the necessity is all. - 02/07/2010 09:19:13 PM 1119 Views
Two words: Public Transportation - 30/06/2010 03:32:05 AM 1133 Views
three words: share the road - 30/06/2010 04:08:28 AM 1157 Views
Re: three words: share the road - 01/07/2010 08:03:54 AM 1214 Views
Re: Two words: Public Transportation - 30/06/2010 08:43:51 AM 1314 Views
Re: Two words: Public Transportation - 01/07/2010 08:05:37 AM 1140 Views
Re: Two words: Public Transportation - 01/07/2010 08:40:10 AM 1084 Views
How the hell is a 7,000 person town Urban? - 01/07/2010 08:52:45 AM 1154 Views
Re: How the hell is a 7,000 person town Urban? - 04/07/2010 12:30:43 AM 1091 Views
Re: How the hell is a 7,000 person town Urban? - 05/07/2010 09:03:03 AM 1167 Views
I'd say you have it exactly the wrong way round. - 01/07/2010 09:41:27 AM 1225 Views
You can't be serious. If you do think that's always (not just sometimes) a viable option, then... - 30/06/2010 09:20:03 AM 1087 Views
Really? - 01/07/2010 08:07:29 AM 895 Views
Have you heard of Britain? - 01/07/2010 08:38:11 AM 1129 Views
My city doesn't have ANY. not even shuttle buses. *NM* - 01/07/2010 06:00:22 AM 630 Views
My city doesn't have anything eather. *NM* - 04/07/2010 12:32:52 AM 719 Views
You do realize that... - 28/06/2010 08:38:39 PM 1123 Views
Bikers can be equally as rude, I agree. - 29/06/2010 03:00:18 AM 1138 Views
heh - 29/06/2010 04:45:46 AM 1096 Views
Despite your subject line, I'm glad to see that we agree with each other more than MK and I do. - 29/06/2010 10:13:29 AM 1201 Views
Get your head on straight, you silly cyclist - 01/07/2010 08:02:58 AM 994 Views
Now now, there's no need to be rude. - 02/07/2010 12:04:16 AM 1207 Views
Re: Now now, there's no need to be rude. - 04/07/2010 05:53:01 PM 995 Views
What part of "there are no alternatives" don't you understand? - 04/07/2010 09:10:23 PM 1066 Views
What part of my post did you not read...? - 05/07/2010 09:01:32 AM 1238 Views
I agree entirely. - 28/06/2010 05:27:36 PM 1247 Views
Really???? - 28/06/2010 04:59:12 PM 1121 Views
that's always really annoying - 28/06/2010 06:27:07 AM 1274 Views
Re: I got screamed at by a motorist while riding my bicycle today - 28/06/2010 03:25:22 PM 949 Views
Are they supposed to use sidewalks anywhere? *NM* - 28/06/2010 04:58:50 PM 532 Views
I doubt it. *NM* - 28/06/2010 05:32:17 PM 478 Views
my daughter rides her bike on the sidewalk all the time - 28/06/2010 06:07:01 PM 1096 Views
Not sure, but - 28/06/2010 06:53:14 PM 996 Views
That all depends on what kind of road, I guess. - 28/06/2010 07:09:52 PM 1130 Views
we actually have a lot of cyclists on one of our 50mph roads - 29/06/2010 01:08:31 AM 1015 Views
I would - 28/06/2010 07:25:22 PM 1010 Views
You've alluded to that a few times now. - 28/06/2010 07:42:05 PM 991 Views
a lot of the time they do in smaller cities - 29/06/2010 01:05:38 AM 912 Views
Of course. Most bikers not in the mid-size to larger cities do. - 29/06/2010 03:06:03 AM 972 Views
Re: Are they supposed to use sidewalks anywhere? - 02/07/2010 09:57:46 PM 1003 Views
That sucks - 28/06/2010 04:34:35 PM 945 Views
You have every right to be on the road. The guy was an ass. - 28/06/2010 07:30:23 PM 1067 Views
I'm so glad I actually READ what you said before responding. - 29/06/2010 09:16:25 AM 1127 Views
?? I thought it was matter of COURSE that bikes weren't allowed on the highway - 29/06/2010 09:27:06 AM 1078 Views
Should be, but it's not. - 29/06/2010 09:59:35 AM 1073 Views
Question for you. - 29/06/2010 10:22:13 AM 920 Views
and i haven't said that anywhere. - 29/06/2010 02:39:06 PM 954 Views
That is what you get for living in Austin *NM* - 29/06/2010 02:38:20 PM 599 Views
about the driving on the shoulder thing - 29/06/2010 02:49:29 PM 1160 Views

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