Re: No offense meant. I realize you're Pakistani, not Indian. But since Pakistan was created to...
Aisha Send a noteboard - 27/06/2010 08:37:39 PM
my response came off a little rude, i also didn't mean it that way, but im pathan so my type of Pakistanis look quite different.
...be a country for Indian Muslims, it makes clear delineations difficult when one is talking about looks or phenotypes.
im just wondering if a "Roma" person wants to mainstream it and get an education and try to find a job, how can people discriminate against them? also what happened to that little girl in your article is absolutely horrifying.
Whenever someone reminds me that the Holocaust didn't just target Jews, but also gypsies and communists, my reaction is usually, "So are you trying to say Hitler wasn't all bad, then?"
Obviously, it's an exaggeration. People should not be murdered or persecuted as a result of their ethnic background, particularly innocent children. I'm not so sure about the communists, but that's not the point of this post.
This post IS about the gypsies, however. Every time I read about anti-gypsy sentiment in Europe (like CNN.com's story from today - see below), a part of me asks if they are like the gypsies (or, if you want to be PC, Roma) that were everywhere in Russia in the early 1990s. The reason I wonder is because, while nothing excuses physical violence against the helpless (I feel terrible for that poor little three-year-old girl), I can still understand the animus to a certain extent if gypsies in Europe proper behave like they used to in Russia.
In the 1990s in Russia, the gypsies were everywhere. The children (some of the dirtiest, foulest-smelling children outside of Third World slums you can imagine) would gather together in groups of 12 or more that would accost people arriving at train stations, airports or tourist sites and try to engage in pickpocketing. Any attempt at grabbing them to stop them from running away with wallets or passports or hitting them to keep them away from pockets would result in the arrival of several men who would then attack the people who had "attacked" their children.
The women would be located a ways away, usually begging (usually with infants too small to join the children picking pockets). Actually, the closer explanation is "aggressive panhandling". Given how superstitious people in Russia can be, the idea that the gypsy woman is trying to yank some hairs off your head if you don't give her money is very disconcerting.
A few blocks from this, the men would be engaging in shell games, money changing scams and some semi-legal petty trading at the market or bazaar.
In short, when people in Russia referred to "gypsies" they were not talking about simply an ethnicity, but an entire way of life that centered around lying, cheating, stealing and leeching off other people (including the government).
As a result, every time I hear about "anti-Roma violence" in Europe, be it in Italy, the Czech Republic, Slovakia or elsewhere, my initial reaction is, "That's terrible - but if the 'Roma' are acting like the gypsies in Russia, I can sort of understand why people don't want them living near them."
Is this the case? Are people just so terrified about being politically correct and/or not sounding like Nazis that they won't talk about the reprehensible lifestyle that accompanies these people? Or are Western European Roma simply trying to get jobs and live normal lives, but shut out for ethnic reasons?
In Russia, the government has cracked down on the gypsies and so the activities that I saw in the early and mid-1990s are largely a thing of the past.
Obviously, it's an exaggeration. People should not be murdered or persecuted as a result of their ethnic background, particularly innocent children. I'm not so sure about the communists, but that's not the point of this post.
This post IS about the gypsies, however. Every time I read about anti-gypsy sentiment in Europe (like CNN.com's story from today - see below), a part of me asks if they are like the gypsies (or, if you want to be PC, Roma) that were everywhere in Russia in the early 1990s. The reason I wonder is because, while nothing excuses physical violence against the helpless (I feel terrible for that poor little three-year-old girl), I can still understand the animus to a certain extent if gypsies in Europe proper behave like they used to in Russia.
In the 1990s in Russia, the gypsies were everywhere. The children (some of the dirtiest, foulest-smelling children outside of Third World slums you can imagine) would gather together in groups of 12 or more that would accost people arriving at train stations, airports or tourist sites and try to engage in pickpocketing. Any attempt at grabbing them to stop them from running away with wallets or passports or hitting them to keep them away from pockets would result in the arrival of several men who would then attack the people who had "attacked" their children.
The women would be located a ways away, usually begging (usually with infants too small to join the children picking pockets). Actually, the closer explanation is "aggressive panhandling". Given how superstitious people in Russia can be, the idea that the gypsy woman is trying to yank some hairs off your head if you don't give her money is very disconcerting.
A few blocks from this, the men would be engaging in shell games, money changing scams and some semi-legal petty trading at the market or bazaar.
In short, when people in Russia referred to "gypsies" they were not talking about simply an ethnicity, but an entire way of life that centered around lying, cheating, stealing and leeching off other people (including the government).
As a result, every time I hear about "anti-Roma violence" in Europe, be it in Italy, the Czech Republic, Slovakia or elsewhere, my initial reaction is, "That's terrible - but if the 'Roma' are acting like the gypsies in Russia, I can sort of understand why people don't want them living near them."
Is this the case? Are people just so terrified about being politically correct and/or not sounding like Nazis that they won't talk about the reprehensible lifestyle that accompanies these people? Or are Western European Roma simply trying to get jobs and live normal lives, but shut out for ethnic reasons?
In Russia, the government has cracked down on the gypsies and so the activities that I saw in the early and mid-1990s are largely a thing of the past.
Aisha - formerly known as randschicka
Europeans - what is the deal with the gypsies?
26/06/2010 08:43:59 PM
- 1060 Views
I think you'd need to ask Central- and East-Europeans for more details, but...
26/06/2010 08:55:04 PM
- 697 Views
I have never noticed anything like that with gypsies here.
26/06/2010 09:23:26 PM
- 564 Views
If it were a problem, I doubt you would have to look to notice it.
26/06/2010 09:34:05 PM
- 605 Views
They are here too..
27/06/2010 01:36:07 AM
- 588 Views
If you mean the guys who run the roofing and driveway paving scams, among others, they're...
27/06/2010 07:49:39 AM
- 650 Views
National Geographic put out an informative article on the Gypsies and the discrimination...
27/06/2010 07:49:08 AM
- 671 Views
do they look any different than the rest of you folks?
27/06/2010 08:08:31 AM
- 624 Views
Since they're of Indian origin, they actually look more like you.
27/06/2010 08:22:26 AM
- 630 Views
im not indian, i dont look indian, but i guess i get what youre saying, dark skin, dark hair....
27/06/2010 06:32:03 PM
- 1031 Views
No offense meant. I realize you're Pakistani, not Indian. But since Pakistan was created to...
27/06/2010 07:06:28 PM
- 712 Views
Re: No offense meant. I realize you're Pakistani, not Indian. But since Pakistan was created to...
27/06/2010 08:37:39 PM
- 694 Views
Yes. They tend to look like they came from India several centuries ago.
27/06/2010 03:13:08 PM
- 646 Views
I think it is more extreme in Eastern Europe
28/06/2010 02:11:01 PM
- 794 Views
That's awful!!!
28/06/2010 11:03:43 PM
- 567 Views
Re: That's awful!!!
28/06/2010 11:31:43 PM
- 604 Views
Social services might need kids to help clear minefields in Bosnia...
28/06/2010 11:36:58 PM
- 639 Views
Argh.
28/06/2010 02:17:50 PM
- 769 Views
Maybe Ireland needs to be more like Scotland.
28/06/2010 02:58:11 PM
- 518 Views
Jesus, imagine the rain if we combined the two...
28/06/2010 03:10:38 PM
- 537 Views
How is it that they have freedom of movement if they get deported?
28/06/2010 11:38:11 PM
- 674 Views
An old gypsy woman LITERALLY tried to curse me in a French train station
02/07/2010 02:59:36 AM
- 810 Views