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No, the Persians are not Arabs. Joel Send a noteboard - 07/06/2010 10:09:47 PM
the Persians are not and never have been Arab. Calling an Iranian an Arab is a good way to get into a fight. Jews and Arabs are Semitic-Persians are not. Nor were the Samaritans Arabic. According to the Bible, they were from many different groups that had been conquered by the Assyrians and were brought in to resettle where they had taken Jews into exile. This fixation you have on making the Arab-Israeli conflict extend back to Biblical times has no basis in facts.

In the Purim story, however, Haman isn't supposed to have been any more Persian than Mordecai is: He's an Amalekite, whom both Arabs and Jews consider Arabs.

As to the Samaritans, even speaking in purely biblical terms you have to look at the whole picture: The Assyrians deported SOME of the Israelites from their native lands, but not all, and, IMHO, probably not even most. Likewise, they brought in some tribes from other regions, but not a vacant land. Prompted by this thread, I hopped over to Wikipedia and read along as it reiterated what had been my understanding all along: The Samaritans to this very day consider themselves Israelites. What I didn't know is that genealogy appears to back them up on that: Scientific analysis of Samaritan DNA shows the presence of both identifiably Hebrew genes from at least the time of the Exile as well as genes from other peoples, leading scholars to conclude Israelite men "'married Assyrian and female exiles relocated from other conquered lands, which was a typical Assyrian policy to obliterate national identities.'[26]" and that "'Such a scenario could explain why Samaritan Y chromosome lineages cluster tightly with Jewish Y lineages, while their mitochondrial lineages are closest to Iraqi Jewish and Palestinian mtDNA sequences.'" Culturally, Samaritan religious leaders evidently hold that the split between themselves and other Jews occurred, not when the other ten tribes split from Judah and Benjamin (and made Samaria their capital) but when Eli made Shiloh the religious capital of Israel (at a time even before the first Israelite kings) so one might even say they consider themselves more Jewish than the Jews. I conceded in my last post that I didn't necessarily consider them Arab, but asserted that I DO consider them "Palestinian" in the modern sense of the word; I've long suspected Palestinians, as descendants of stateless Israelites and resettled peoples in Canaan under the Assyrians, are a lot more Jewish than Arab (and not Philistine at all) but it doesn't suit the politics of anyone involved to present it that way.

So, anyway, whether we're dealing with the Biblical tale of Isaac and Ishmael (Arab) or Mordecai and Haman (Arab) and whether those tales relate historical fact, fictional mythology or something in between, there are multiple stories of Jewish/Arab conflict from before there WAS European civilization, so it's hard to lay all the responsibility there.
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Jacqueline Rose on the Dreyfus affair and related problems, in the LRB - 06/06/2010 11:28:14 AM 1082 Views
What she has to say about Dreyfus is very interesting. - 06/06/2010 04:48:16 PM 869 Views
Re: What she has to say about Dreyfus is very interesting. - 06/06/2010 04:56:32 PM 796 Views
*remains amused at the suggestion of the Dreyfus Affairs "pertinence" to "current" events* - 06/06/2010 05:14:23 PM 800 Views
I agree in part and (strongly) disagree in part. - 06/06/2010 05:40:26 PM 772 Views
"If it's an eternal struggle, how could there ever be a solution or a peace?" - 06/06/2010 06:20:39 PM 836 Views
Purim may or may not refer to a historic event. Even if it does, Haman was not likely an Arab. - 07/06/2010 12:00:05 AM 686 Views
I second your main point. - 07/06/2010 12:09:42 AM 698 Views
I don't discount that there is Arab blood in many or even most "Arabs". - 07/06/2010 12:18:32 AM 690 Views
Okay, fair enough then. *NM* - 07/06/2010 08:45:19 AM 302 Views
The holiday is centuries old and real, regardless. - 07/06/2010 12:28:59 AM 776 Views
You're still missing the major point here. - 07/06/2010 12:44:08 AM 679 Views
That seems a rather limited view of history. - 07/06/2010 01:10:11 AM 786 Views
What the Hell are you going on about? - 07/06/2010 04:08:19 AM 741 Views
Oooh - 07/06/2010 11:07:43 AM 605 Views
Yeah, to whom was the claim on that land given? - 07/06/2010 10:35:42 PM 740 Views
jeez Joel... - 07/06/2010 04:24:47 AM 724 Views
No, the Persians are not Arabs. - 07/06/2010 10:09:47 PM 854 Views
I (coincidentally) stumbled across those infamous hadith passages about Jews the other day. - 07/06/2010 09:41:39 AM 773 Views
So? - 07/06/2010 10:50:49 PM 757 Views
So the relevance of apocalyptic passages is close to zero. - 07/06/2010 11:55:05 PM 715 Views
Not to mention - 08/06/2010 09:09:27 AM 652 Views
Then why are they canon? - 08/06/2010 06:25:09 PM 905 Views
are you claiming that people would pull some things out of holy text and ignore the rest? - 08/06/2010 12:16:41 PM 785 Views
*NM* - 08/06/2010 01:16:13 PM 297 Views
well, for me this just proves why we are not supposed to live among non-Jews - 06/06/2010 11:39:45 PM 873 Views
how so? - 06/06/2010 11:41:18 PM 644 Views
It reminds me of what I kept thinking as I read it. - 07/06/2010 12:51:36 AM 671 Views
couldn't get past the part where anyone who opposes Obama is a racist *NM* - 08/06/2010 01:40:07 AM 473 Views
You hallucinated? *NM* - 08/06/2010 08:39:37 AM 349 Views
No, that would've been one of the places where she should've shut up. *NM* - 08/06/2010 08:58:11 AM 286 Views
No - 08/06/2010 09:08:04 AM 651 Views
I think he's not talking about that bit, but about the very first paragraph. - 08/06/2010 09:30:21 AM 778 Views
If there was more I didn't get far enough to hear it - 08/06/2010 12:09:47 PM 635 Views
That's the problem with the speech - the large majority of what she had to say was worthwhile. - 08/06/2010 01:15:39 PM 702 Views
The problem is blatant bias - 08/06/2010 02:24:57 PM 677 Views

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