Re: You are at the intersection of bull and shit.
PerrinWT Send a noteboard - 02/06/2010 10:18:36 PM
Good to know you want to law school and took Crim Pro, but either it was a long time ago or you just didn't pay attention.
From Berghuis v. Thompkins, the case decided yesterday.
In the context of invoking the Miranda right to counsel, the Court in Davis v. United States, 512 U.S. 452, 459, 114 S.Ct. 2350, 129 L.Ed.2d 362 (1994), held that a suspect must do so “unambiguously.” If an accused makes a statement concerning the right to counsel “that is ambiguous or equivocal” or makes no statement, the police are not required to end the interrogation, or ask questions to clarify whether the accused wants to invoke his or her Miranda rights (Obviously a slip opinion, but you can easily find it)
Notice the reference to Davis v. US, and the need for unambiguous statements BEFORE counsel will be granted. The Court would now put the invocation of the right to remain silent on par with the right to counsel. Thus, the right to remain silent will carry with it the obstacles placed on the right to an attorney.
Davis 114 S.Ct. 2350, 2355. "But if a suspect makes a reference to an attorney that is ambiguous or equivocal in that a reasonable officer in light of the circumstances would have understood only that the suspect might be invoking the right to counsel, our precedents do not require the cessation of questioning."
The problem with this standard is it leaves officers a LOT of wiggle room on what might be ambiguous. If I merely reference a right to an attorney, or say "I think I might want an attorney," officers are not required to stop or tell me that I am invoking my right incorrectly. Hell, for all I know they are simply ignoring my request and keeping me confined, away from an attorney and away from constitutional protections.
Further from Berghuis. "If the accused makes an “ambiguous or equivocal” statement or no statement, the police are not required to end the interrogation, or ask questions to clarify the accused's intent... The unambiguous invocation requirement results in an objective inquiry that “avoid[s] difficulties of proof and ... provide[s] guidance to officers” on how to proceed in the face of ambiguity. . Had Thompkins said that he wanted to remain silent or that he did not want to talk, he would have invoked his right to end the questioning."
Where as before the right was omnipresent, now it only appears if invoked. Basically, your silence on your right to be silent acts as a waiver. The obvious evidentiary and practical implication are tremendous.
Finally, I am not sure if you failed Criminal Procedure, or you are simply a moron, but you should reseach before you speak. If you are an attorney, I feel bad for you clients, because you open your mouth before you think or read. If you want to be educated again, I would be happy to have you as opposing counsel. Just because you made it through law school and got a bar number does not mean you are a competent attorney on every topic. Most of us learn that a year out of law school, but it seems your intellectual growth was retarded after your classes ended.
From Berghuis v. Thompkins, the case decided yesterday.
In the context of invoking the Miranda right to counsel, the Court in Davis v. United States, 512 U.S. 452, 459, 114 S.Ct. 2350, 129 L.Ed.2d 362 (1994), held that a suspect must do so “unambiguously.” If an accused makes a statement concerning the right to counsel “that is ambiguous or equivocal” or makes no statement, the police are not required to end the interrogation, or ask questions to clarify whether the accused wants to invoke his or her Miranda rights (Obviously a slip opinion, but you can easily find it)
Notice the reference to Davis v. US, and the need for unambiguous statements BEFORE counsel will be granted. The Court would now put the invocation of the right to remain silent on par with the right to counsel. Thus, the right to remain silent will carry with it the obstacles placed on the right to an attorney.
Davis 114 S.Ct. 2350, 2355. "But if a suspect makes a reference to an attorney that is ambiguous or equivocal in that a reasonable officer in light of the circumstances would have understood only that the suspect might be invoking the right to counsel, our precedents do not require the cessation of questioning."
The problem with this standard is it leaves officers a LOT of wiggle room on what might be ambiguous. If I merely reference a right to an attorney, or say "I think I might want an attorney," officers are not required to stop or tell me that I am invoking my right incorrectly. Hell, for all I know they are simply ignoring my request and keeping me confined, away from an attorney and away from constitutional protections.
Further from Berghuis. "If the accused makes an “ambiguous or equivocal” statement or no statement, the police are not required to end the interrogation, or ask questions to clarify the accused's intent... The unambiguous invocation requirement results in an objective inquiry that “avoid[s] difficulties of proof and ... provide[s] guidance to officers” on how to proceed in the face of ambiguity. . Had Thompkins said that he wanted to remain silent or that he did not want to talk, he would have invoked his right to end the questioning."
Where as before the right was omnipresent, now it only appears if invoked. Basically, your silence on your right to be silent acts as a waiver. The obvious evidentiary and practical implication are tremendous.
Finally, I am not sure if you failed Criminal Procedure, or you are simply a moron, but you should reseach before you speak. If you are an attorney, I feel bad for you clients, because you open your mouth before you think or read. If you want to be educated again, I would be happy to have you as opposing counsel. Just because you made it through law school and got a bar number does not mean you are a competent attorney on every topic. Most of us learn that a year out of law school, but it seems your intellectual growth was retarded after your classes ended.
SCOTUS Update: Right to remain silent? Suspect better speak up -
01/06/2010 07:53:14 PM
- 1101 Views

What I don't like about this decision...
01/06/2010 08:21:02 PM
- 685 Views
I think the only potential issue is if the person didn't understand the Miranda warning.
01/06/2010 10:37:42 PM
- 618 Views
that is an odd way of looking at it
01/06/2010 11:58:12 PM
- 631 Views
I'm more referring to the almost "magic words" that Kennedy introduces here.
02/06/2010 12:18:07 AM
- 650 Views
So we should not allow police to question people at all?
02/06/2010 12:31:27 AM
- 582 Views
You won't hear me complain if the Miranda rights are scaled back a bit.
02/06/2010 12:40:23 AM
- 578 Views
Forgot to mention - the 5-4 decision was split between cons and libs, but.....
01/06/2010 08:36:41 PM
- 584 Views
This seems reasonable to me.
01/06/2010 09:47:34 PM
- 656 Views
I'm stunned. Your response was reasoned, logical and concise. What have you done with Joel?
01/06/2010 10:43:22 PM
- 623 Views
Joel is going to be so pissed when he finds out that you logged onto his account.....
02/06/2010 01:42:50 AM
- 637 Views
Hey deaf people who can't speak... pound sand.
01/06/2010 09:55:41 PM
- 717 Views
well the deaf can simply close their eyes and end the interview
02/06/2010 12:26:31 AM
- 610 Views
Re: well the deaf can simply close their eyes and end the interview
02/06/2010 03:57:35 AM
- 621 Views
you are often questioned by the police? What are you doing to make that happen?
02/06/2010 03:35:47 PM
- 660 Views
This decision is a setback for us all.
01/06/2010 10:10:51 PM
- 726 Views
No it isn't.
01/06/2010 10:42:06 PM
- 644 Views
Re: No it isn't.
01/06/2010 11:26:07 PM
- 653 Views
Teach people to say "I'm not saying anything until my lawyer gets here." Period. *NM*
02/06/2010 12:38:24 AM
- 258 Views
Close, but not cigar.
02/06/2010 01:30:19 AM
- 664 Views
if they catch more bad guys is that a bad thing? *NM*
02/06/2010 01:50:12 AM
- 275 Views
Would you be okay with the prohibition of firearms if it lowered the crime rate?
02/06/2010 02:18:26 AM
- 625 Views
You are at the intersection of bull and shit.
02/06/2010 04:00:32 PM
- 647 Views
Re: You are at the intersection of bull and shit.
02/06/2010 10:18:36 PM
- 637 Views
I am confused
01/06/2010 11:09:14 PM
- 634 Views
Re: I am confused
01/06/2010 11:15:07 PM
- 566 Views
ummm, no...
02/06/2010 12:13:59 AM
- 662 Views
Re: ummm, no...
02/06/2010 01:38:54 AM
- 599 Views
Nothing has changed
02/06/2010 01:56:08 AM
- 601 Views
Except you risk waiving them unless you specifically say you want to use them.
02/06/2010 04:07:51 AM
- 618 Views
not surprising that people who use phrases like "Police State of America" believe that
02/06/2010 03:24:25 PM
- 620 Views
As far as I can tell, this changes nothing and simply maintains the status quo.
01/06/2010 11:27:36 PM
- 629 Views
For those who don't understand the techniques of police interrogation let me make this clear.
02/06/2010 01:57:51 AM
- 677 Views
Good advice
02/06/2010 04:00:45 AM
- 566 Views