The “reasonable suspicion” requirement is still there (see yesterday’s post for more on that) but this version specifies that there have to be independent grounds for suspicion beyond race. Also new is the list of documents that someone can present to create a presumption that they’re here legally, although it’s unclear to me how that’ll work in practice. If you’re pulled over on suspicion of being illegal for whatever reason and you produce an Arizona driver’s license, does the cop then let you go (probably, in most cases) or does he get to hold you while he tries to come up with further evidence to overcome the presumption? Another open question — and this is the key for civil libertarians — is whether “reasonable suspicion” can be formed simply by virtue of the fact that the suspect isn’t carrying one of the ID types listed. If so, then cops could theoretically start pulling people aside on the sidewalk and hauling them in if they don’t produce their “papers.” I don’t read this section that way; it sounds like “reasonable suspicion” must exist before any “reasonable attempt” to verify the suspect’s immigration status is made. But if I’m misreading it and “reasonable suspicion” is satisfied if the suspect is guilty of nothing more than being Latino and forgetting his driver’s license at home, then they’re going to have a Category Five legal and political clusterfark on their hands when the first American citizens of Hispanic descent are mistakenly arrested.
I'm glad that local driver licenses are at least accepted. But aren't there some states that will issue DL's to illegal aliens? I wonder if they will keep a list of which state DL's are OK and which are not.
i'm pretty sure in any state you can get a driver's license as long as you pass the written and driving test. they do not check your citizenship status when you apply for a driver's license because it's not the state's responsibility to check whether or not you are legally in the country. and DMVs in the US allow a translator to help the test taker read the questions as long as the translator doesn't actually help them take the test. i have family members who were all able to drive many years before they became citizens of the country, although they were all here legally from the start. but the point is, they were never challenged to prove they were legal aliens or not, they just had to pay the fees and take the tests.
"The RIAA has shown a certain disregard for the creative people of the industry in their eagerness to protect the revenues of the record companies." -- Frank Zappa
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman
The Arizona immigration bill thingy
26/04/2010 12:57:20 AM
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what do you expect from one of the last states to accept MLK day?
26/04/2010 01:19:03 AM
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Yes, well, at least you are in the 27% of Americans that have a Passport.
26/04/2010 01:48:44 AM
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It will only take a few times getting their asses sued off for detaining U.S. citizens against...
26/04/2010 05:54:49 AM
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Yeah, I can't wait 'til a Latino state representative is arrested for looking illegal.
26/04/2010 07:26:13 AM
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or even better, a celebrity. I choose Antonia Banderas (when he has the funky beard hobo look) *NM*
26/04/2010 12:32:18 PM
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Looks like no one knows how bad it is along the border
26/04/2010 06:19:24 AM
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Oh please! The immigration and drug problems don't justify bad legislation.
26/04/2010 07:02:54 AM
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Some thoughts
26/04/2010 06:42:02 AM
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It's not just outrageous; it's plain stupid. The latter is almost as offensive as the former.
26/04/2010 07:30:30 AM
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Sounds more like a bill to convince people they are doing something than to do something
26/04/2010 12:43:19 PM
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What I find interesting about all this...
26/04/2010 01:06:08 PM
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It is interesting to see how it contrasts with your take on it, being from a country with them
26/04/2010 02:11:18 PM
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Perhaps I'm wrong, but...
26/04/2010 01:49:13 PM
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I don't know about the green cards
26/04/2010 03:05:49 PM
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That last point doesn't really make any sense.
26/04/2010 03:20:19 PM
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my point was that the punishments for the similar crimes are so different.
26/04/2010 04:23:08 PM
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The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass
26/04/2010 02:59:11 PM
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The law will most likely not be overturned.
26/04/2010 03:13:24 PM
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The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM*
26/04/2010 03:20:45 PM
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The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM*
26/04/2010 06:53:32 PM
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The law will be overturned but it may help to get the federal government off their collective ass *NM*
26/04/2010 08:33:04 PM
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The federal government will be collective ass but it may help to get the law off their overturned *NM*
27/04/2010 05:33:42 AM
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Their collective ass will be overturned but it may help to get the law off the federal government *NM*
27/04/2010 09:18:02 AM
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It's interesting how this sort of mirrors the Belgian issues.
26/04/2010 03:34:59 PM
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the "overrunning" of culture and language is exaggerated, imo
26/04/2010 04:34:56 PM
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I think the primary problem - in both cases - is language, yes.
26/04/2010 04:54:55 PM
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*shrug* I don't know. I just think that people are way too uptight about the issue
26/04/2010 05:02:30 PM
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the differences really are not that minor
28/04/2010 06:49:33 PM
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hmm, see
28/04/2010 07:10:42 PM
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I am from San Antonio I have always been able to buy burritos from my neighbors
28/04/2010 08:28:45 PM
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When I say relatively minor, it's because I'm thinking of those *other* assimilation problems here
28/04/2010 10:30:04 PM
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It should rattle anyone who lives in a democracy and who likes their way of life
28/04/2010 11:15:18 PM
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More power to the government! and We took that land fair and square! *NM*
26/04/2010 04:43:15 PM
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I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute
26/04/2010 09:05:21 PM
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Re: I'm going to take a common sense approach on this for a minute
26/04/2010 11:48:14 PM
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you are correct
29/04/2010 06:39:29 AM
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Will the will of the people of Arizona be respected?
27/04/2010 12:12:46 AM
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That's funny...
27/04/2010 01:57:14 AM
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echo chamber much?
27/04/2010 04:14:53 PM
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there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights.
27/04/2010 05:19:29 PM
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Re: there's also 53% of us who think this will lead to violating civil rights.
28/04/2010 12:40:42 PM
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Also, the potential economic consequences of the law could be severe for Arizona.
27/04/2010 01:03:54 AM
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activist group liberal group claims it will cost money, what a shocker *NM*
27/04/2010 04:23:11 PM
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It will cost money
27/04/2010 09:16:31 PM
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but all of that ignores the long term savings
28/04/2010 03:24:50 PM
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it's less a matter of american tourism
28/04/2010 04:06:50 PM
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if they law is enforced it will decrease the number of illegals who go to Arizona
28/04/2010 06:35:26 PM
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I don't see any real long term savings coming from this.
28/04/2010 10:17:26 PM
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70% of the people in Arizona support the new law and 30% of the state is Hispanic
28/04/2010 10:51:08 PM
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real science?
28/04/2010 11:06:13 PM
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I linked to it further up the thread and you responded
28/04/2010 11:19:51 PM
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