His death wasn't very spectacular, but he did play an essential role...
Legolas Send a noteboard - 07/04/2010 06:45:58 PM
So what was Snape's final sacrifice? Voldy killed him. He was bleeding out on the floor, and his sacrifice was a memory to Harry which cleared his name? Snape was hardly a hero, and was closer to a villian than an anti-hero. And then let us examine the entire why of Snape. He loved Lily. That is the single and only reason why he ever turend away from Voldy & the Death Eaters. It was for her. And before someone says "love conquers all", let us remember that he called her mudblood. In his rage, he shouted out what he honestly thought of her. Contrary to popular belief what is often said in the heat of the moment (or while drunk) is indicitive of the speaker on the inside. It really calls into question of did Snape love her like a typical person loves another, or did he love her in his Buffalo Bill/Stalker sort of way?
I think he conveyed some relatively information in those memories somewhere, but yeah, the important role is earlier, when he gives Harry the sword (though doesn't make his identity known, obviously). Snape's social skills as a teenager aren't all that of course, and he has his prejudices about mixed blood, precisely because he is one himself (much like Voldemort that way), but I think Snape as Lily knows him in school is probably the closest to the "real" Snape that we see in the series. He doesn't have to be a saint or even a particularly kind person to be on the good side and risk life and limb for the cause the way he does.
Is there a way back from the Dark Side? Sure, there can be. To bring wot into this conversation, check out Lord Ingtar. Darkfriend who was involved in murder & attempted murder. He chose to turn good, and sacrificed for it. Snape did no such thing. He was grieved over the loss of his love (subject of his obsession?)...Dumbledore had him cornered & could have killed or captured him...and then chose to go over to good side as his alternative. While there, he encouraged the most abhorant behavior of Slytherin (cheating, theft, lying, bullying) and abused and belittled students (Neville comes to mind).
To some extent, that was required to keep up his cover, particularly when Voldemort came back in the picture. No doubt, some of it was just him being an ass - like I said, nobody said he was a particularly sympathetic character. And he certainly did sacrifice for it - it wasn't much of a sacrifice while Voldemort wasn't there, but after that, he risked his life constantly and had to walk a very fine line between helping the Order and keeping up his cover. And then of course had to kill Dumbledore - on Dumbledore's request because of the curse and all, but still, can't have been an easy thing for him to do, as is shown quite clearly in Snape's short talk with Harry later in that book, one of the very few times in the series that he actually loses his temper and lets some of his emotions show.
In Deathly Hallows, he lets a few Death Eaters run rampant in the school, physically abusing the students. Sure none of them died directly from the beatings, but he hardly lessoned their pain. And he didn't give himself up in some nobel way at the end...he was killed by Nigili.
Again with the fine line between helping and keeping up his cover. The situation at Hogwarts doesn't get much attention in the final book obviously, but to me it's clear that Snape tries to shield the students as much as he can without risking his cover. His eventual death isn't very glorious or noble, but then it was never going to be - double agents rarely get to die noble deaths, that doesn't make them less important.
Now see...calling into question Dumbledore's judgement was a fantastic aspect of the book that I liked (until it wasn't in question anymore). Dumbledore said specifically that he can make the wrong call...and since he's spectacular like that, his mistakes are that much more spectacular. I thought that it was a great twist from the typical. Just because a mentor is wrong, doesn't mean that his work is invalidated. It means that he's human and can be wrong too. The only "error" that Dumbledore made was keeping things from Harry. And I don't think that it was an error. You do not tell an 11 year old that they are going to have to die to save the world. He's 11 years old. I don't care how "advanced" or "mature" a kid thinks that they are...they cannot handle that.
I agree with all this, it was excellently done, and in a way kind of necessary to make Harry his own man, and the actual hero responsible for defeating Voldemort, instead of merely Dumbledore's instrument. But Dumbledore being wrong about Snape would have meant that an 11-year-old's initial judgement of a man was more accurate than the great wizard Dumbledore's, and that Dumbledore had gambled everything for all those years on a pawn he shouldn't have trusted. That's more than just proving Dumbledore can make mistakes like anybody else, it makes him look a naive fool.
Ultimately, I thought that it would have been a fantastic deviation from the norm for Snape to really be evil & Dumbledore to be flawed on a fundamental level. His mild obsession with the Horecruxes don't count.
I thought his indirect responsibility for his sister's death was a bad enough flaw, myself... But no, thematically, I still think Snape had to be good - or, well, "good" is relative, the revelations of book seven don't exonerate him from being an ass and picking on vulnerable students, but you get what I mean.
Harry Potter (the entire series)
06/04/2010 11:00:07 PM
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Re: Harry Potter (the entire series)
06/04/2010 11:29:49 PM
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Really?
07/04/2010 05:41:46 PM
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I honestly think it's a combination of the two
07/04/2010 05:55:18 PM
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I'll give you that....
07/04/2010 06:11:27 PM
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It does seem logical that the series gets more teenager-oriented as Harry grows older.
07/04/2010 06:47:57 PM
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Re: Harry Potter (the entire series)
07/04/2010 12:26:22 AM
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I get where you're coming from
07/04/2010 06:19:13 PM
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That's kind of the point though...
07/04/2010 08:44:26 PM
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This is how I see it too
08/04/2010 12:43:03 AM
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just a comment about your rich=bad
08/04/2010 02:05:32 AM
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I agree with many of your points.
07/04/2010 12:44:31 AM
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I have to dispute the concept of going "too far."
07/04/2010 06:32:47 AM
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Hm, I don't know.
07/04/2010 11:08:12 AM
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This is a lot like the argument I'm having with Joel on the CMB concerning original sin.
08/04/2010 07:21:39 AM
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Where is this debate? I'd like to read it.
08/04/2010 05:18:38 PM
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I should have put "debate" in quotes. It's about four sentences long.
08/04/2010 10:32:43 PM
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More conversation on Snape.
07/04/2010 06:01:37 PM
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His death wasn't very spectacular, but he did play an essential role...
07/04/2010 06:45:58 PM
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Brief comments on Magic, Dumbledore, and The Epilogue.
07/04/2010 07:13:55 AM
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Re: Brief comments on Magic, Dumbledore, and The Epilogue.
07/04/2010 06:09:20 PM
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The movies are even worse about this.
07/04/2010 06:15:35 PM
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Death doesn't actually happen in slow-motion fit for the cinema screen.
08/04/2010 07:24:31 AM
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Re: Death doesn't actually happen in slow-motion fit for the cinema screen.
08/04/2010 03:27:09 PM
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Harry Potter and Star Wars have two radically different approaches to this
07/04/2010 06:13:25 PM
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When my son asked for his own set of Harry Potter books,
07/04/2010 10:26:37 PM
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This is assuming of course...
07/04/2010 11:00:15 PM
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I was most irritated by the ironic names
08/04/2010 05:38:59 AM
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Re: I was most irritated by the ironic names
08/04/2010 10:07:40 PM
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Exactly - it's not as obvious if you're a kid, then it seems clever and it's fun to decode.
09/04/2010 01:04:11 AM
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