what he said! especially about Cersei being seriously mentally ill *NM*
imlad Send a noteboard - 19/03/2010 04:38:19 AM
Though, of course, none of them are good. With all the others, there is some sort of motivation, something other than the simple desire to kill those that wronged her. Arya's sole goal in life is the extermination of a well-determined list of people that have commited offense upon her in her life. I do not see how this is good in any way or sense. And her shortness and likeablity are not at all justification for her sins. She has taken steps to accomplish her evil goal through evil means. Consorting with assasins and later joining a guild of them so she can become one herself. The people on her list have wronged her, but many of them have not done it in such a life threatening way that their deaths can be justified.
Robert Baratheon is certainly presented as "good" in the first book. He is likeable and friendly, if he has changed from the man he was, we get many favorable POV scenes from Ned's perspective. However, when you look closer at his actions, he is a very bad man, if not as evil as Arya or Cersei. He led a revolution against the annointed King for a stolen love. Though many houses supported him not because of love but because of the weakness of the Targaryens, and because the Mad King was truly a threat to the realm and it would better many people's lives to have him gone, Robert's sole motivation in leading a rebellion was that his betrothed fell in love with another man. Seems like an awful reason to kill so many to me. And then, years later, he demands sending assasins to do away with the last remaining Targaryens. A pregnent 14 year old girl. Though it is possible that he desired this for the purposes of eliminating rallying points for future rebellion, it is fairly clear from what we know about him that he is doing it for his personal hatred of the family. This puts him up there with Madame Defarge for EVILNESS.
I am not defending Cersei when I say that she is less evil than Arya and Theon. Whether or not you call it POV trap, she has some justification for her actions. She, like Cat Stark, does everything she does for her children. However, unlike Cat Stark, she has ambition far above what would be accepted for a woman in this world and a desire to promote some convuluted form of gender equality by getting herself power. Of course, her methods are definitely evil, but she views this as only doing what she has to do to protect her children and her house. However, as of AFFC when we finally get her point of view, I am of the opinion that she is really mentally ill at this point, so she is not responsible for her actions and cannot be classed as evil.
Theon is a bad dude.
Jaime isn't.
If you need explanation, I posted it on the quickpoll a while ago.......
Robert Baratheon is certainly presented as "good" in the first book. He is likeable and friendly, if he has changed from the man he was, we get many favorable POV scenes from Ned's perspective. However, when you look closer at his actions, he is a very bad man, if not as evil as Arya or Cersei. He led a revolution against the annointed King for a stolen love. Though many houses supported him not because of love but because of the weakness of the Targaryens, and because the Mad King was truly a threat to the realm and it would better many people's lives to have him gone, Robert's sole motivation in leading a rebellion was that his betrothed fell in love with another man. Seems like an awful reason to kill so many to me. And then, years later, he demands sending assasins to do away with the last remaining Targaryens. A pregnent 14 year old girl. Though it is possible that he desired this for the purposes of eliminating rallying points for future rebellion, it is fairly clear from what we know about him that he is doing it for his personal hatred of the family. This puts him up there with Madame Defarge for EVILNESS.
I am not defending Cersei when I say that she is less evil than Arya and Theon. Whether or not you call it POV trap, she has some justification for her actions. She, like Cat Stark, does everything she does for her children. However, unlike Cat Stark, she has ambition far above what would be accepted for a woman in this world and a desire to promote some convuluted form of gender equality by getting herself power. Of course, her methods are definitely evil, but she views this as only doing what she has to do to protect her children and her house. However, as of AFFC when we finally get her point of view, I am of the opinion that she is really mentally ill at this point, so she is not responsible for her actions and cannot be classed as evil.
Theon is a bad dude.
Jaime isn't.
If you need explanation, I posted it on the quickpoll a while ago.......
Death to the Regressives of the GOP and the TeaParty. No mercy for Conservatives. Burn them all at the stake for the hateful satanists they are.
ASoI&F Quickpoll: Evil characters
18/03/2010 02:04:24 PM
- 1303 Views
Re: ASoI&F Quickpoll: Evil characters
18/03/2010 02:32:48 PM
- 744 Views
Confusing likability with goodness
18/03/2010 08:59:40 PM
- 764 Views
Arya may not be "good"...
18/03/2010 09:15:46 PM
- 817 Views
Do you think a child can be evil? *NM*
18/03/2010 09:18:06 PM
- 318 Views
We sometimes hear about kids doing horrible things
18/03/2010 09:41:30 PM
- 649 Views
Is that because they may not understand the consequences of their actions?
18/03/2010 09:45:33 PM
- 714 Views
Most likely, yes. Plus their reasons for doing bad things lack deeper inferior motives.
18/03/2010 10:09:25 PM
- 750 Views
Arya is old enough to understand cause and effect...
18/03/2010 11:04:31 PM
- 835 Views
Soldiers do the same thing.
19/03/2010 03:23:35 AM
- 693 Views
Just what I was about to say, yeah *NM*
19/03/2010 07:55:47 AM
- 293 Views
Soldiers kill for the sake of their country, their cause, or their hope...
19/03/2010 11:24:16 PM
- 1066 Views
Re: Soldiers kill for the sake of their country, their cause, or their hope...
20/03/2010 12:29:55 AM
- 706 Views
Arya is not a soldier. Soldiers are not individually responsible for the results of war.
20/03/2010 11:22:43 PM
- 861 Views
Arya is legitimately the most evil...
18/03/2010 09:45:04 PM
- 1016 Views
No, she's not
18/03/2010 11:45:23 PM
- 695 Views
Cersei doesn't have true justification
18/03/2010 11:47:44 PM
- 821 Views
what he said! especially about Cersei being seriously mentally ill *NM*
19/03/2010 04:38:19 AM
- 275 Views
Re: Arya is legitimately the most evil...
19/03/2010 10:50:56 PM
- 689 Views
I was looking forward to his response as well.
19/03/2010 11:13:35 PM
- 794 Views
to be accurate, the child was not yet disabled when he was pushed from the tower
20/03/2010 10:52:42 PM
- 810 Views
Evil is such a limiting term to use.
20/03/2010 12:18:24 PM
- 665 Views
Try reading the books
20/03/2010 10:50:01 PM
- 875 Views
I've read them a few times.
21/03/2010 01:47:52 PM
- 754 Views
Just a "few" times?
21/03/2010 06:07:14 PM
- 831 Views
Only three times.
21/03/2010 11:20:12 PM
- 714 Views
Jon Connington- Hand to Aerys. Lost to Hoster, Eddard and Robert. Exiled. *NM*
22/03/2010 04:09:59 AM
- 337 Views
people seem to be forgetting
21/03/2010 09:11:04 PM
- 813 Views
ROFLMAO. Most people complain that my values are medieval & out of touch with the modern world!
23/03/2010 01:54:58 AM
- 1088 Views
To clarify, "evil" means VERY, VERY BAD.
23/03/2010 01:12:39 AM
- 920 Views